also looking for someone in ontario with one.. bump!
You don't need a SMD DD-1 to set gains. That is a tool for clipping obsessed internet fanboys and retards. Complete waste of money for anything daily related. If you want to set your gains, ultimately the last tool you'll use for final say is your ears. If your installers know what they are doing there is NOTHING wrong with setting gains by ear. let me attempt to explain
When setting gains all your doing is controlling relative volume. The HU puts out power that is amplified by amps and sent to speakers. Gains just control how much input from the hu=how much output from the amp. Now here are the kickers you need to understand
1.Music is transient. Your 1500 watt sub amp only puts out 1500 watts on music some of the time. Depending on how your gains are set, it may put out 1500 too often (clipping) or never (this is also bad.) Let's say you set your hu at volume level 22. That is 1.2volts coming out of the hu using a 0db test tone. (that's a tone recorded for maximum volume, so as loud as a cd will allow) Only when the volume is at 22 AND the music source peaks at 0db's will the amp put out 1500. Most music has a 6-10db "crest factor". Crest factor is the average difference between a musics maxium volume and it's average volume. 6db, which is a pretty loud song, means, that on average a 1500 watt amp set to "just under clipping" will only be putting out 375 watts on average. Sometimes more, peaking at 1500 for short seconds, sometimes less on a quiet part. Not really getting what you pay for without clipping huh?
2.Most clipping isn't dangerous! Subwoofer amps especially don't have an issue with clipping. All clipping means is the amp can no longer put out the power the gain structure is asking for. If the hu is putting out 2volts and you have the amp put out max power at 1.7, then the extra .3 will cause clipping. Points that were just under max volume on the source cd, will now cause max output from the amp. The parts that were alreadsy maxed distort slightly with higher order frequencies. However, most subs filter this high frequency stuff out inherently due to the voicecoil length. As long as the sub can handle the extra power this is creating, it's not dangerous and is often required to get the output most people want.
3. Not all speakers are the same effeciency. So you have a 500 watt amp on your front speakers and 1500 on your subs. Your sub on 1500 may be louder than your fronts on 500, or visca-versca. Matching gains isn't about matching power of your amp to RMS, it SHOULD be about matching final output. If that means that your front speakers only get 300 watts when your subs recieve 1500, then fine.
Anyway, if you want to set gains by ear, just do this.
1.Find a loud track, if you listen to bass heavy music, pick something that's as bass heavy as you have ever heard.
2. Turn all amp gains all the way down, turn the hu up to around 3/4 volume, JVC's go to 50 IIRC, so around 40 should be good.
3.Turn the gain up on the mid amp until your components either A. Begin to sound strained, or B. are as loud as you'd ever need or want them to be. At that point, stop turning it up, if they sounded strained or distorted, turn it down a hair.
4.Turn the sub level on the HU all the way up if your a bass head and picked a bass heavy song or even a test tone, I usually use a -3 tone for this, if not then just a loud song.
5. Turn the sub gain up until the sub either A. stops getting louder and moving further if your a bass head or B. blends with the music (choose this if you did the 3/4 volume on the subwoofer level and aren't a basshead)
By doing that everything should blend fine to your ears and shouldn't be clipping all to hell if you have ANY common sense. It's not hard to see when your stressing gear. Odds are the sub will be clipping some at this point, but again, subs can generally take a bit of clipping without issue.
Gain setting is NOT rocket science. I don't know why the car audio culture has turned it into that, in pro audio circles most guys set gains by ear, even for large crowds dealing with mega dollar equipment. Once you get a feel for it, it's not hard and it's the only way to ensure that whatever gain setting you have actually sounds good...
If you don't trust yourself to do it that way for the sub portion, there are other tools you can pickup on the cheap that can assist you. A DMM for 20 dollars can assist in setting gains, but again, music is transient, woofer impedence is transient, so your still not getting a TRUE picture (dont worry the SMD has the same inherent flaw lol) For the sub though, it's not a terrible tool. You will still want some gain overlap, which will cause clipping. If you decide you really don't want to clip, a DMM can do that too, but be prepared for your subwoofer to be ungodly quiet on most music and never sound right lol.
When setting gains all your doing is controlling relative volume. The HU puts out power that is amplified by amps and sent to speakers. Gains just control how much input from the hu=how much output from the amp. Now here are the kickers you need to understand
1.Music is transient. Your 1500 watt sub amp only puts out 1500 watts on music some of the time. Depending on how your gains are set, it may put out 1500 too often (clipping) or never (this is also bad.) Let's say you set your hu at volume level 22. That is 1.2volts coming out of the hu using a 0db test tone. (that's a tone recorded for maximum volume, so as loud as a cd will allow) Only when the volume is at 22 AND the music source peaks at 0db's will the amp put out 1500. Most music has a 6-10db "crest factor". Crest factor is the average difference between a musics maxium volume and it's average volume. 6db, which is a pretty loud song, means, that on average a 1500 watt amp set to "just under clipping" will only be putting out 375 watts on average. Sometimes more, peaking at 1500 for short seconds, sometimes less on a quiet part. Not really getting what you pay for without clipping huh?
2.Most clipping isn't dangerous! Subwoofer amps especially don't have an issue with clipping. All clipping means is the amp can no longer put out the power the gain structure is asking for. If the hu is putting out 2volts and you have the amp put out max power at 1.7, then the extra .3 will cause clipping. Points that were just under max volume on the source cd, will now cause max output from the amp. The parts that were alreadsy maxed distort slightly with higher order frequencies. However, most subs filter this high frequency stuff out inherently due to the voicecoil length. As long as the sub can handle the extra power this is creating, it's not dangerous and is often required to get the output most people want.
3. Not all speakers are the same effeciency. So you have a 500 watt amp on your front speakers and 1500 on your subs. Your sub on 1500 may be louder than your fronts on 500, or visca-versca. Matching gains isn't about matching power of your amp to RMS, it SHOULD be about matching final output. If that means that your front speakers only get 300 watts when your subs recieve 1500, then fine.
Anyway, if you want to set gains by ear, just do this.
1.Find a loud track, if you listen to bass heavy music, pick something that's as bass heavy as you have ever heard.
2. Turn all amp gains all the way down, turn the hu up to around 3/4 volume, JVC's go to 50 IIRC, so around 40 should be good.
3.Turn the gain up on the mid amp until your components either A. Begin to sound strained, or B. are as loud as you'd ever need or want them to be. At that point, stop turning it up, if they sounded strained or distorted, turn it down a hair.
4.Turn the sub level on the HU all the way up if your a bass head and picked a bass heavy song or even a test tone, I usually use a -3 tone for this, if not then just a loud song.
5. Turn the sub gain up until the sub either A. stops getting louder and moving further if your a bass head or B. blends with the music (choose this if you did the 3/4 volume on the subwoofer level and aren't a basshead)
By doing that everything should blend fine to your ears and shouldn't be clipping all to hell if you have ANY common sense. It's not hard to see when your stressing gear. Odds are the sub will be clipping some at this point, but again, subs can generally take a bit of clipping without issue.
Gain setting is NOT rocket science. I don't know why the car audio culture has turned it into that, in pro audio circles most guys set gains by ear, even for large crowds dealing with mega dollar equipment. Once you get a feel for it, it's not hard and it's the only way to ensure that whatever gain setting you have actually sounds good...
If you don't trust yourself to do it that way for the sub portion, there are other tools you can pickup on the cheap that can assist you. A DMM for 20 dollars can assist in setting gains, but again, music is transient, woofer impedence is transient, so your still not getting a TRUE picture (dont worry the SMD has the same inherent flaw lol) For the sub though, it's not a terrible tool. You will still want some gain overlap, which will cause clipping. If you decide you really don't want to clip, a DMM can do that too, but be prepared for your subwoofer to be ungodly quiet on most music and never sound right lol.
d77543020
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Veteran
that 3/4 volume myth is the problem not all decks are the same some can be turned all the way up some will clip before 3/4 the dd1 is a easy tool to use some of us just like the simplicity
Someone else who doesn't understand the actual purpose of a gain knob... Again, clipping and distortion are NOT the point.. You do 3/4 volume because if you ever listen to a track that is NOT recorded as loudly as your test track, you'll have room to continue to turn it up. 3/4 gives you room to turn up quiet tracks, and allows you to keep you amp gains down somewhat, to avoid noise floor issues. If you set your hu volume to max on a 0db tone/track, when a song that is quieter say -12db, your SOL, your volume knob will be pegged without putting out any kind of juice. I'll say it again.. Setting gains is NOT about pegging everything just short of clipping/distortion. I've never seen a HU of any real calibur that clips that bad anyways. It's all going to come down to recorded volume level of the track, so use 3/4, give yourself room to turn up quiet tracks and get on with life.. If you like the simplicity, your overthinking gain setting and don't care about actual good sound. I can't believe we've gotten along for over 50 years without the SMD "disortion" detector.. Minor clipping is good and it won't even test for distortion AFTER the electrical signal, which is where 99% of distortion comes from anyway.. Waste!
- Thread Starter
- #6
I appreciate the lesson T3mpest and it's pretty obvious that you know what you're talking about. I would really just like to know what level to NEVER go past on my HU and set the amp gains where they need to be to get the most out of my system. I just feel like driving a test tone at ear bleeding levels through my speakers and trying to listen for distortion myself is a bad idea. I'm a HT guy and I set my 5.0 speakers at 75db using an SPL meter and run the sub about 5db hot, I know exactly where I can get up to before I have to worry about windows shattering at home, I just want the same for the car. How the **** is there not one of these things in Toronto?
d77543020
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Veteran
Op it's a great tool don't let anyone tell you different most people don't like it cuz it has the word SMd across it and that's fine even though he doesn't actually make the product but that's beside the point is it expensive yes and I would only recommend it if you swap out your system a lot then yes but if you can rent one that would be better there's a reason why every single dd1 that shows up on this fourm and other forms gets
sold immediately there's lots of reputable shops out there who are using them now
Nothing is going to blow up running past 1% distortion.. using this thing won't guarantee the most your system.. if your dead set on finding one though best bet is to call up some shops locally. I have a feeling you may have to buy one and resell though. Another option is to use an oscilliscope. You can actually see the waveform coming off the and you can stop once you see it clip. Then turn it down a hair and youll be good. Also when setting gains for mids by ear never use a tone.. always music lol that would hurt
- Thread Starter
- #9
I just called about 10 shops and 90% of them were basically retarded. None of them use anything technical and a few guys were wondering why I wanted it done. Am I in the ******* Twilight Zone here? Do people not want their gear setup properly? Who the **** pays car audio shop prices and then let's some semi-tard fool around with the gains in his system to a radio rip 64kbs MP3 of "Boomin' In MY Jeep" by LL Cool J? One guy had a DD-1, said he never used it but if I wanted to come by he could do it for $85. I laughed at him.
exactly why i ask 40 people on here for their different opinions, car audio shops are so stupid.... LIKE ALL OF THEM
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