Announcement

[Steven Kephart 10+ year member]

Big thumbs up to Adire.
And this thread will not turn negative. Discuss your outsourcing problem elsewhere.

- Steve

Thanks definitely for that. But Dan has made some good points in the past about the outsourcing "issue", and I think everyone will be happy with his position. Dan would be the best person to comment on that issue, so I will refrain from that topic.

And thanks for the positive wishes everyone. I have been very excited about this ever since I heard about it when I got the job at Adire. I believe this will be great for Adire, Dan, and the industry. Even the other competing companies I believe will benifit from this as they now have a source for smaller runs of speakers at a reasonable price.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

 

[idiot 10+ year member]

I didn’t intend for it to turn negative. I apologize.

Anyway, since the thread on SI was lost, I’ll ask again here. Regarding Adire’s 500% initial increase in products in 2005, is that referring to sheer number of products manufactured, or is it an implication that a large amount of new ones will be introduced in the coming year?

 

[`pr0digy 10+ year member]

Just for discussions sake, could dan make a thread regarding the outsourcing issue ? Not trying to turn negative, but it could be an interesting discussion, and it'd be nice to hear about it from the man himself //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[DanWiggins 10+ year member]

outsourcing would involve moving adire audio jobs to south america. this is a whole new company based out of south america it sounds like.
Congrats to Dan and the boys. if you can do custom tooled drivers some one might be giving CAC a call sometime.

al

EXACTLY. In fact, we've HIRED 3 new Americans to work for us, because of this expansion. ADDING the new South American plant allows us to expand up here as well... It's called growing the market. No one laid off, or hours cut, or wages cut. Just expanded the head count here AND created dozens of new jobs in South America.

For those concerned about "outsourcing", how many of you own a Ford or GM car? Chrysler doesn't count - owned by Mercedes Benz/Daimler (German). Honda? Acura? Toyota?

How many own head decks from Pioneer, or Alpine. Clarion? Panasonic? How many own DEI-brand products? Sony?

It's all cool to talk about "outsourcing" when you're concerned about your job, but when you vote with your wallet to send things overseas, well...

Sorry, but complaining about outsourcing while driving your Acura RSX, listening to your Pioneer head driving DEI amps and Kicker drivers really smacks to me of the ultimate hypocrisy.

Dan Wiggins

Adire Audio

 

[Acidburn 5,000+ posts]

thumbs up to Dan and Steven and the entire Adire crew, sounds like a great situation

will your slurpie machine be expanded as well?

 

[DanWiggins 10+ year member]

I’m not saying that I won’t buy any outsourced products; I have on many occasions. I’m merely lamenting that this country’s current political and economic structure pushes manufacturers to this kind of decision. It’s quite unfortunate.

It's not the political or economic structure of our country that forces this. I know, I'm in business. NO ONE goes to work overseas if they can avoid it, because it is a headache, does complicate things, and few countries are even as close to the US in terms of ease of doing business.

You know why companies go overseas? Because the consumer demands it. Shopping products strictly on the basis of price forces it. If the consumer can save $3 on an equivalent product, they will. Price war is what it's about, and it's driven by the consumer. Designed, built, and sold in the US is becoming scarce because NO ONE in the US is willing to pay for the price associated with it.

How many here would be willing to pay an extra $100 per Brahma, if I guaranteed it was built in the US, with as much US content as possible? Any takers? Because that's about what it would add in terms of price...

Sorry, but these kinds of statements really tick me off... Not directed at you personally, Idiot, but at everyone who laments outsourcing, but takes no action to counter it.

YOU ALL have the power to stop it. Buy products built in the US, if it's important to you. If it's not, then don't pay lip-service to it.

Personally, I do not think using overseas production is a "bad thing" for the US. If anything, it's allowing us to compete even stronger in the US AND overseas. US products become more attractive for export because they are lower priced, and can compete with products made overseas, in their own countries.

It's NOT a fixed pie; if it were, we'd still have 2 million jobs, and a GDP around 4& billion, like we had in 1900...

Dan Wiggins

Adire Audio

PS: anyone have any idea where most of JL, Kicker, ID, Orion, etc. drivers are made? Hint - it starts with CH and ends with INA...

Dan

 

[Nikuk 5,000+ posts]

........PS: anyone have any idea where most of JL, Kicker, ID, Orion, etc. drivers are made? Hint - it starts with CH and ends with INA...

Dan

LoL... sad but true.

No offense intended here. We all, or most of us, realize that you're "the man"... just an initial shock response.

We tend to vote for underdogs, as it were. Independants, innovators, etc... to hear about something going more "commercial" is an initial //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif Once one stops and thinks "...hey this is a pretty smart move and will surely benefit the co. & consumer...." well hey //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/thumbsup.gif.3287b36ca96645a13a43aff531f37f02.gif

 

[supa_c 5,000+ posts]

will your slurpie machine be expanded as well?

For those of you who dont know what it looks like

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Even most American made products have components from overseas. I had to wait a couple months to get the XXX's I ordered from RE because they were waiting on parts being shipped from China (what they told me).

But I disagree that the cause of the outsourcing is due to the consumers. The blame shouldn't be put on the consumer for not chosing the more expensive product simply because its made here, it is human nature to chose the best bargain. The problem is in the fact that the product made here is in fact more expensive. Especially considering the overseas product had to have the shipping cost added in, and is still competitive in price with the local product. Im not an economist to explain why American labor is so much higher, but I assume it has to do with variances in world currencies and local cost of living prices.

 

[Warbleed 10+ year member]

I only view outsourcing as a negative when we're talking the "wipe out the local economy of a town to move to mexico, despite record profits". That's when outsourcing is bad, and it isn't the outsourcing that's the problem in that case, it's greedy ****in people.

 

[Steven Kephart 10+ year member]

But I disagree that the cause of the outsourcing is due to the consumers. The blame shouldn't be put on the consumer for not chosing the more expensive product simply because its made here, it is human nature to chose the best bargain.

Well you can't blame the company either for wanting to stay in business. They can not compete with overseas pricing if production stays in america, so they either move or fail. So where should we put the blame? After all, it is the american consumer that is making the decision on which companies product to buy.

The problem is in the fact that the product made here is in fact more expensive. Especially considering the overseas product had to have the shipping cost added in, and is still competitive in price with the local product. Im not an economist to explain why American labor is so much higher, but I assume it has to do with variances in world currencies and local cost of living prices.

I can assure you that it is MUCH cheaper to make products overseas than here, even after shipping costs. There is a reason why Tang Band can offer their speakers so cheap, or why you can get kilowatt amplifiers so cheap. Can you guess where those products are made?

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

any Ford drivers here?

think your Ford is made in the US of A? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

sad, but true...

 

[supa_c 5,000+ posts]

ALOT of cars are made in Mexico,

guess why......

Yep, its cheaper

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Well you can't blame the company either for wanting to stay in business. They can not compete with overseas pricing if production stays in america, so they either move or fail. So where should we put the blame? After all, it is the american consumer that is making the decision on which companies product to buy.

I do not blame the company for outsourcing, sorry if my post implied otherwise. As I said, I believe the blame lies in the variance in global economies, the currency and cost of living differences. Its true you can get labor in China for pennies an hour, but in their economy that's obviously an acceptable working wage. From the perspective of Americans wanting to keep jobs local, that's the 'problem'. IMO the solution is exactly what you are doing at Adire, creating the jobs in this country that are skilled, while utilizing the low labor costs of another economy for the low skilled jobs. Automation is another possible solution, on a case by case basis.

I can assure you that it is MUCH cheaper to make products overseas than here, even after shipping costs. There is a reason why Tang Band can offer their speakers so cheap, or why you can get kilowatt amplifiers so cheap. Can you guess where those products are made?

You don't need to assure me, I agree with you. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif That's the point I was making. I see it in my job as well. I am not complaining about the prices, I love the cheaper prices just like any other consumer. I was stating that is the reason why outsourching is happening. I guess my use of the word problem was misleading in my previous post.

Good luck to you guys on your new endeavor. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[idiot 10+ year member]

It's not the political or economic structure of our country that forces this. I know, I'm in business. NO ONE goes to work overseas if they can avoid it, because it is a headache, does complicate things, and few countries are even as close to the US in terms of ease of doing business.
You know why companies go overseas? Because the consumer demands it. Shopping products strictly on the basis of price forces it. If the consumer can save $3 on an equivalent product, they will. Price war is what it's about, and it's driven by the consumer. Designed, built, and sold in the US is becoming scarce because NO ONE in the US is willing to pay for the price associated with it.

How many here would be willing to pay an extra $100 per Brahma, if I guaranteed it was built in the US, with as much US content as possible? Any takers? Because that's about what it would add in terms of price...

Sorry, but these kinds of statements really tick me off... Not directed at you personally, Idiot, but at everyone who laments outsourcing, but takes no action to counter it.

YOU ALL have the power to stop it. Buy products built in the US, if it's important to you. If it's not, then don't pay lip-service to it.

Personally, I do not think using overseas production is a "bad thing" for the US. If anything, it's allowing us to compete even stronger in the US AND overseas. US products become more attractive for export because they are lower priced, and can compete with products made overseas, in their own countries.

It's NOT a fixed pie; if it were, we'd still have 2 million jobs, and a GDP around 4& billion, like we had in 1900...

Dan Wiggins

Adire Audio

PS: anyone have any idea where most of JL, Kicker, ID, Orion, etc. drivers are made? Hint - it starts with CH and ends with INA...

Dan

I thought that I was being quite broad by mentioning the “political and economic structure,” broad enough to cover the fact that American labor is considerably more expensive than that overseas. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Whether this is the fault of Labor Unions continuously marching for higher salaries here, long-standing governmental policies that offer tax breaks to manufacturers who locate operations overseas, or any other factor that I’m either too lazy to list or just not aware of, is certainly covered in my initial response. If the consumer demands a product three-quarters of the price of an American-made one with the label “Made in Chile” slapped on the side, that is principally the fault of the U.S. labor sector for making jobs in this country so expensive; but this is due largely to our strong economy, and as such, its just not conceivable for U.S. workers to labor for sweatshop wages (not that I’m insinuating that you’re building a Chilean sweatshop… I’m referring more to the stereotypical conception of Chinese labor). Part of that is social, I would imagine, and the rest is due to the current political and economic structure.

Everyone who laments outsourcing take no action to counter it? What would you suggest might be an effective dissuasion, from your perspective? The only solution I see, aside from some type of tyrannical governmental regulation, is to 1) reduce the cost of U.S. workers significantly, or 2) stimulate all other economies of the world so that foreign workers will not labor for so cheaply. I don’t see how either can be a viable solution.

Speaking of competing with products here and overseas, where do you envision marketing CAC’s products? Just domestically, or do you predict a strong foreign market as well?

And because no one has answered yet:

Regarding Adire’s 500% initial increase in products in 2005, is that referring to sheer number of products manufactured, or is it an implication that a large amount of new ones will be introduced in the coming year?