Amp clipping

[jolly_26 10+ year member]

Was having this discussion with a friend, and thought I'd post it up to see what you guys thought. It's not actually a problem I'm having or a situation that will occur in my setup or his.

Say for example I had a 1000 watt rms sub, and a choice of two amps, one that made 1000 watts rms, and one that made 2000 watts rms. Both amps are running at minimum impedance, and for arguments sake are identical except for power output.

With the 2000 watt rms amp hooked up and gained to 1000 watts rms, would it be less likely to clip during voltage drop than having the 1000 watt rms amp hooked up and gained to 1000 watts?

My theory was that it was far less likely to clip because it's only doing half rated, but my friend disagrees and says it's irrelevant. Am I correct in thinking this or not?

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[plantinseeds]

Hmm, I'd like to know this as well.

 

[goingdef 10+ year member]

I would think it would if you can't support 1000rms in theory how would you be able to produce that with an even larger amp without the voltage dropping, it takes power to make power!

 

[jolly_26 10+ year member]

my guess is that the bigger amp would just put out clean signal most of the way down until it reached a low enough voltage for it to go into protect (amplifier dependant of course), but I'd like to hear from someone who knows more. Any electrical engineers on here?

 

[jolly_26 10+ year member]

I would think it would if you can't support 1000rms in theory how would you be able to produce that with an even larger amp without the voltage dropping, it takes power to make power!

exactly, I was meaning under equal voltage drop, would the bigger amp clip?

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

Was having this discussion with a friend, and thought I'd post it up to see what you guys thought. It's not actually a problem I'm having or a situation that will occur in my setup or his.
Say for example I had a 1000 watt rms sub, and a choice of two amps, one that made 1000 watts rms, and one that made 2000 watts rms. Both amps are running at minimum impedance, and for arguments sake are identical except for power output.

With the 2000 watt rms amp hooked up and gained to 1000 watts rms, would it be less likely to clip during voltage drop than having the 1000 watt rms amp hooked up and gained to 1000 watts?

My theory was that it was far less likely to clip because it's only doing half rated, but my friend disagrees and says it's irrelevant. Am I correct in thinking this or not?

I would not hesitate to run the 2000 watt rms amp on the 1000 w rms sub if my amps' input gains were set to match my HU out voltage...maybe set them a little conservative perhaps. As far as voltage drop, I assume you mean Supply Voltage?...what would that have to do with setting the signal input gains?...you mean sending the amp into Protect mode ?

 

[jolly_26 10+ year member]

I would not hesitate to run the 2000 watt rms amp on the 1000 w rms sub if my amps' input gains were set to match my HU out voltage...maybe set them a little conservative perhaps. As far as voltage drop, I assume you mean Supply Voltage?...what would that have to do with setting the signal input gains?...you mean sending the amp into Protect mode ?

I think maybe in my OP I didn't explain what I meant properly as no one seems to understand what I'm asking, maybe read it again? With either a 1000w amp gained to output 1000w, or a 2000w amp gained to output 1000w, both undergoing a large input voltage drop due to poor electrical, would the 1000w amp clip before the 2000w amp? Or is it irrelevant?

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

I think maybe in my OP I didn't explain what I meant properly as no one seems to understand what I'm asking, maybe read it again? With either a 1000w amp gained to output 1000w, or a 2000w amp gained to output 1000w, both undergoing a large input voltage drop due to poor electrical, would the 1000w amp clip before the 2000w amp? Or is it irrelevant?

I understand completely...I just don't understand the clipping part. If the supply voltage from the cars electrical dropped too much, it would trigger the amp into protect...what would that have to do with the head unit output voltage?

 

[jolly_26 10+ year member]

I understand completely...I just don't understand the clipping part. If the supply voltage from the cars electrical dropped too much, it would trigger the amp into protect...what would that have to do with the head unit output voltage?

I'm not sure where you are getting the part about headunit voltage from? By input voltage I was meaning the voltage across the inputs as in the supply, maybe that's where my phrasing was out. I'll reiterate. With either a 1000w amp gained to output 1000w, or a 2000w amp gained to output 1000w, both undergoing a large supply voltage drop due to poor electrical, would the 1000w amp clip before the 2000w amp? Or is it irrelevant?

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

I'm not sure where you are getting the part about headunit voltage from? By input voltage I was meaning the voltage across the inputs as in the supply, maybe that's where my phrasing was out. I'll reiterate. With either a 1000w amp gained to output 1000w, or a 2000w amp gained to output 1000w, both undergoing a large supply voltage drop due to poor electrical, would the 1000w amp clip before the 2000w amp? Or is it irrelevant?

seems like they would both shut down and go into protect mode when a predetermined minimum supply voltage was reached..Irrelevant.

 

[jolly_26 10+ year member]

seems like they would both shut down and go into protect mode when a predetermined minimum supply voltage was reached..Irrelevant.

Makes sense, but wouldn't that mean clipping wouldn't be caused by low supply voltage at all? And I'm pretty sure it does cause clipping, right? Idk I'm going to bed I'll check this after my exam tomorrow.

 

[goingdef 10+ year member]

exactly, I was meaning under equal voltage drop, would the bigger amp clip?

I believe they would both start to clip in theory at the same point being your talking amps of equal efficiency as with the larger amp you would just never see full power or even half power on this theoretical weak@ss electrical system!

 

[goingdef 10+ year member]

Makes sense, but wouldn't that mean clipping wouldn't be caused by low supply voltage at all? And I'm pretty sure it does cause clipping, right? Idk I'm going to bed I'll check this after my exam tomorrow.

yes if the electrical is up to par and you set the amp at say 2400 rms @ 14.4 volts the second there's a load on the electrical and it drops and you attempt to now play a test tone at the level you set the amp up to do 2400 and your now at 12.5 but still driving the amp with the same signal and level it will be clipping.

 

[maylar 10+ year member]

my guess is that the bigger amp would just put out clean signal most of the way down until it reached a low enough voltage for it to go into protect (amplifier dependant of course), but I'd like to hear from someone who knows more.

It depends entirely on the amp. Some amps are internally regulated (internal power supply) and will maintain full power down to the minimum battery voltage without clipping. But an unregulated amp that's rated at full power at 14V would start to clip as the voltage drops. In that case you're probably correct, the amp that's at full tilt (1000 w) would clip first.

Any electrical engineers on here?

Yes. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Kangaroux 5,000+ posts]

Was having this discussion with a friend, and thought I'd post it up to see what you guys thought. It's not actually a problem I'm having or a situation that will occur in my setup or his.
Say for example I had a 1000 watt rms sub, and a choice of two amps, one that made 1000 watts rms, and one that made 2000 watts rms. Both amps are running at minimum impedance, and for arguments sake are identical except for power output.

With the 2000 watt rms amp hooked up and gained to 1000 watts rms, would it be less likely to clip during voltage drop than having the 1000 watt rms amp hooked up and gained to 1000 watts?

My theory was that it was far less likely to clip because it's only doing half rated, but my friend disagrees and says it's irrelevant. Am I correct in thinking this or not?

Really depends on the amp...some amps have a soft clip at their rating, some can go another 1000w before they start to clip. But me personally I would run the 2k amp. Say you're wired to 1 ohm. Theoretically you should get 1k out of that 1k amp. But after box rise you might see anywhere from 2-8ohms which can cripple the amps' power output, and now it's no longer putting out the 1k you thought it would. If you are looking for a true 1k you would want to go with the 2k amp because after rise you are much more likely to actually be at that 1000w mark than you are with the other amp. But to comment on your thoughts that at half the rated power it's less likely to clip: that's partly true. Again, it goes back to how the amps were rated in the first place, because even at half the rated power you might experience a soft clip. The other advantage to running the 2k amp vs. the 1k amp is heat. Running an amp at half its potential vs. running an amp at its full potential you will see less heat build up and resistance and possibly even a slight gain in voltage between the two. Of course, this is all theoretical, but you get the idea.