am i underpowering?

[chronicblazen 10+ year member]

i got these 12 inch 305dvc pioneers. (2) they are 400rms and 800max. my friend is tryna sell me this kicker kx150.2 i looked up the specs on this amp and its only 75x2 rms at 2ohm. i have the 12's wired for 2ohm. this seems to me like im wayy underpowering the subs, but yet, i hooked them up to that amp, and they're hittin pretty hard.

also another question. is there any way i can make my pioneers sound louder than my friends audiobahn (2) 12's 400rms 800max? just cause they're audiobahns is not enough reason for me to believe that they won't... my magnet is 83 ounces, when the audiobahn's is just 47 ounces. thanks for all feedback.

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[80_Cutlass_mn 10+ year member]

To tell you the truth I doubt your Pioneers will get as loud as his audiobahn's with the same amount of power to each. Audiobahn was made for nothing but SPL and really nothing else. Pioneer is kinda of a SQL sub and I doubt they will touch the audiobahns.

Even though they sound like they are hitting hard with only 75 watts a piece, which is more like 85 since Kicker amplifiers are underrated to some degree, they will get a hell of alot louder when you start feeding them more like 200-350. Trust me this was what I ran my Pioneers at for about a month or so and even though I thought it was very very loud at the time, as soon as I wire them in parallel to my mono amp and sent them 200 watts a Piece then there was no going back for me, theyve been hitting with 200 watts for just over a year now.

 

[LSCCEO 10+ year member]

The magnet size really has nothing to do with how loud the subs are. Power, efficiency, box design, and signal are really what determine how "hard you will hit". The amp you're talking about here will definitly power the subs but consider moving to something a bit larger of some quality. (Meaning that new Bling Bling series chrome 2 billion watt Pyramid will never outpower a 100 watt Alpine with a CLEAN signal)

 

[chronicblazen 10+ year member]

thanks cutlass. now that i know that these pioneers wont get as loud as his... lemme tell you how they will. see, he is powering these audiobahn subwoofers with a sony XM-2165GTX which is rated at 200 watts rms x2 at 2ohms. if you can help me find an amp, which is better than this one, i think i can get him. i was looking at this power acoustik LT 1920 shown here http://photo.dealtime.com/xPF-Power_Acoustik_LT_1920_2 . this amp is rated at 440 watts rms x 2 at 2 ohms. i dont know much about the qualitiy of these amps. if this would not be the right amp, can anyone recommend me one that will get the job done, AND beat the audiobahns?, hehe, thankss.

 

[80_Cutlass_mn 10+ year member]

Since you do have dual voice coil subwoofers that are 4 ohms, is this correct? Then I think your best bet would be to get a Profile California CA1200. Ive ran Profile for a long time as well as some of my friends who also made me a believer. There are also many people here on the forums that run Profile amps without incident. The cheapest ive seen them was on the http://www.thezeb.com, here is a direct link to the California amplifiers... http://thezeb.com/detail.aspx?ID=3499.

Its only 199 there shipped with ground shipping and I would say its your best bet. It does a little over 400watt rmx x2 at 2 ohms so all you would have to do is wire your subs in parallel to each channel. To do that just take the positive of one voice coil, wire it to the positive of the other voice coil and then do the same for the negative and then just wire them up to its own channel, do this for each sub and then you have it, 400 watts rms to each of your subs.

 

[chronicblazen 10+ year member]

oh thanks, ya ima do that and ill let u kno how it goes... gotta get that doe first tho. that power acoustik, pumpin out about the same rms for bout thirty sump bucks cheaper... is the name profile worth it? havent heard much bout these power acoustik amps...

yea the subs are 4 ohm, and i did wire them parallel. when you wire parallel the ohms go down right? so they should be at 2ohm for the amplifier. thanks for all help.

 

[80_Cutlass_mn 10+ year member]

Ya like I said I would stay away from the power acoustic amp, I dont trust them. Yes you can ask almost anyone here on the forums and theyll tell you the same thing. Profile is a greay budget company that is very reliable if you treat them right and they do what they are rated for, nothing more and nothing less.

But what I was mainly asking was, are your subs dual voice coil? If so then yes do as I said and wire each sub's voice coils in parallel to get a 2 ohm load and then wire each sub to its own channel so that only the seperate channels see a 2 ohm load. This will give you 400 watt rms per sub, or I can also tell you a way to wire each sub to a 4 ohm final load so you can bridge the amp which wont give you any better results in reality.

 

[chronicblazen 10+ year member]

ya theyr dual voice coil, i wired them parallel just like you said. 4 ohm went down to 2 ohm. my other friend tryna sell me a kicker 400.1, its mono and its abour four hundred sump rms... i was thinkin of buyin it, then buyin nother wun liek it to have one separate for each sub, but i already have another amp for the inside speakers.. im thinkin three amps would be too much for my stock alternator and battery. i think ill stick wit the profile idea.

 

[80_Cutlass_mn 10+ year member]

Alright man, glad I could be of assistance, also it might help to know what size alternator your car has since that Profile CA1200 is a class a/b amp afterall and WILL pull alot of current, especially at two ohms a channel or bridged at 4 ohms. But also it might help to know what kind of budget your on? You know you can find Hifonics BX1000D's on ebay for like 219 bux which isnt all that much more than the Profile and it will be alot more efficient and prolly wont pull as much current. The BX1000D's which do 1000watts at 1 ohm mono which you could wire your subs down to together would be great, matter of fact my friend has two Premier tsw-125dvc's that we are sending at least 500 watts a peice from a bridged lanzar 258 amplifier and havent had a single problem from it yet. So I think these new Pioneer subs can handle at least an extra 100 watts or better, im thinkin bout gettin a 1000 something watt tsunami amp off ebay for like 150 bux from audioblowouts for my Pioneer subs that are rated at 300 rms. Ive even bridged my friend lanzar 258 at 2 ohms with my subs and they didnt even bottom out when I really cranked it so im sure the newer ones could handle some abuse, just a suggestion though. But if you could give me an absolute maximum amplifier budget we might be able to find you something that is a little more efficient and stock electrical system friendly for ya. But if you want the Profile then by all means go for it, they are really great amps.

 

[chronicblazen 10+ year member]

hey, yea, for the budget its not really a matter of how much, it just takes me longer to save up for whatever.. but i was really lookin forward to spending not over two hundred.. and if does go over, very little. i dont know what size my alternator is, if you tell me how i can find out ill look it up. it shouldnt be too big tho because its for a 93 infiniti g20, small car. one thing i dun understand from what u said tho, was about that hifonix. its a mono, and its rms, at 2 ohm is 500x1. yea ive seen wiring set ups that bring of a pair 4 ohm dual coil subs to 1 ohm for one channel. i guess your prolly sayin that at 1 ohm that amps pullin 1000 rms, thats pretty ****in good for the size of that amp.. i had a question bout these profile amps, are they in any way associated with legacys or pyramids? cus shit, in the beginnin when i was jus learnin ive had terrible experiences with these pieces of sh*t. one of my friends thought of seen the names mixed together somehow.. isnt really sure though. cause if it was that case, then id get that power acoustik lt1920 i was tellin you about, i can get it for 154 plus shippn, and havent even checked ebay yet.

o ya one more question, if iwas to wire sub to sub to make em 1 ohm, to wire from one sub to another, i have them in the same box, but the chambers are sealed. is it ok to make a lil hole for a speaker cable? thanks.

 

[80_Cutlass_mn 10+ year member]

Profile amps are in no way even the slightest bit associated with all those shit brands like Pyramid, Legacy, Pyle, or the like. Profile is a really good budget company that has been around for quite some time now and have really set their name in stone with people needing a good amp on a budget. They are very reliable and do what they say they will and will last a very long time if treated correctly.

Now for the alternator question, im not really sure what size it is and I dont really know a website that could tell you either. The best things to do to find out is go to an auto parts store like advance or autozone and ask them for a stock oem replacement alternator for your car and then ask them how many amps it is, that will tell you how many amps it is, thats how I had to find out mine.

Also as for the Hifonics pulling alot of power, it will prolly pull less current than the Profile 1200 to be honest because it only does 100 more watts than the that Profile can bridged or each channel at 2 ohms and it will pull less power because it is a class D amplifier made for driving subwoofers. Class D amplifiers are somewhere in the neighborhood of about 75-85% efficient compared to the Prifle CA1200 which is class a/b which means that it has an efficiency of about 50-70% at best. They arent really great if you dont have alot of power to spare but they are good amplifiers non-the less.

What all this efficiency mumbo jumbo means is that the class D amplifiers will use less power to create the same amount of power that the class a/b Profile can without getting nearly as hot and wasting alot of energy on heat which is what class a/b amps are notorius for along with class a especially since they are about 10-15% efficient because whether or not they are playing any music or even dont have rca's hooked into them, they pull full current all the time no matter what.

All-in-all what im trying to say is that for say a class a/b amplifier to produce lets say 1000 watts and draw around 120 amps then for a class D to make 1000 watts then it would pull around 90 amps so you see what im saying. Class D amplifiers are more efficient in that they dont waste alot of energy in the form of heat like class a/b amplifiers like the CA1200 is. The Hifonics on the other hand is a class D and more than likely wont pull nearly as much current as the Profile and then you have to also think that you prolly wont have it cranked high enough for it to draw full power all the time anyway and even if you did with music then it hardly wouldnt pull that anyway.

But I can give you another cheaper choice for a class D amplifier if ya want. Here is a link to a Tsunami 1000D amplifier, 1000watts at 1 ohm and its also a class D amplifier. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3075489519&category=18797.

Its 140 shipped without insurance and 145 with insurance and if you look around on the forums enough then you will notice that these amps are being recommended quite alot here recently.

But if you have any more questions about that then just ask, and oh btw about the question about is it ok to just drill small hole and then run your wire through it, yes its ok just ask long as you caulk around the hole on the inside of the box after you have run enough wire for your needs.

 

[80_Cutlass_mn 10+ year member]

Also a little note....in the above reply^^^^^ those current figures stated are not real world figures, they are just simply something I thought up to try and help get my point across. Any similarity in these figures and real world figures is purely conincidence. Just thought I would add that //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif.

 

[chronicblazen 10+ year member]

****, all that really helped, learnin everyday. gotta bother u wit maybe couple more questions tho cus i really wanna kno how this works completely and everything. im interested in the idea of a class d amp because of all the reasons you tell me. question bout class d amps... i wire two sub woofers to 1 ohm, then hook it up to a mono class d amp (they all mono right?) which pumps out 1000 watts rms like the tsunami... does this mean each sub is gettin 500 watts each, or is some power lost in wiring it like this, or how does it work. i already looked up how to wire the subs to 1 ohm, i got it. other question, are all class d amp 1 ohm stable? i could borrow my friends amp for right now till i get mines, cus he ain usin it after he sold his subs, which is a kicker 400.1, tested to 443 rmsx1.

would this amp do better job of pushin the pioneers, over the two channel 75x2rms kicker that im runnin right now? (also borrowed, lol)

one more thing, if i want to to the 1 ohm set up, does a sub have to be , if there is such thing, "1 ohm stable"? or does this only apply for amps? all dis siet im learnin got me all excited and shit i jus gatta ask alla dis. thanks a lot again.

ps o thanks for tellin me bout the profiles havin no business wit legacy, i can tell the f@ckin idiot that told me that, to shut the f@ck up, he doesn't know what hes talkin bout, etc.

 

[80_Cutlass_mn 10+ year member]

Ok now for you Class D amplifier question. Not all Class D amplifiers are 1 ohm stable, but the majority of them are if im not too mistaken but I dont have any personal experience with them and I know how they work and believe me, with the electronics knowledge that I have just myself and then studying how class D amplifiers work (which I literally spent hours looking things up on the internet through various search engines to find something useful and then I spent more hours reading and re reading how they work but now I understand and its amazing how they do work) then I can tell you that they energy efficient. Also for the most part again, most Class D amplifiers are mono, even though some of them might look as if they are 2 channel when in reality they are the same terminals inside the amplifier and are mearly there for ease of wiring multiple subs to them. A great example of this is the JBL 1200.1, it has what appears to be 2 channels but in fact are connected to each other inside the amp itself.

OK now for you other question. If you wire the subs down to 1 ohm and hook them up to lets say the tsunami amp (aptly dubbed the SUMO amp by myself for ease of typing it out //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif), and you do get the 1000 watts out of it with both the subs hooked to it then yes, the power WILL be split evenly into the two subwoofers so yes each will get 500 watts of power. Also you do in fact get a small loss of wattage due to the natural resistance in the wire but its very minute, I mean extremely small, like in the neighborhood of just a couple of watts of difference which you would never even hear at those power levels.

Also if there is a way to wire that Kicker amp down to 1 ohm and it being stable which im not totally sure on, id have to do some research on the internet to find out then yes it would be better than the other amp only pushing 75 watts into the two subs cuz then they would each recieve slightly over 200 watts a peice.

Your very welcome my friend, im only trying to help someone who needs help. And when I can help, I do all that I can if im sure that I know I can help.

 

[chronicblazen 10+ year member]

ohh, i understand now... this is just what i needed... no wastin power or money, and gettn wayy more watts than i was... i have one more question... do the subwoofers have to be, (if there is such thing for sub woofers) 1 ohm stable? or can they handle any ohm you throw at them?. thanks again.