$45,000 for every man, woman, and child in this country

Democrats want to take care of the debt by increasing taxes.
Seems logical given that the debt is caused in large part by tax breaks for the rich.

Also, nothing I said is factually incorrect. The Republicans DO want to place ALL the burden on the people who can afford it the least. Democrats are at least willing to come to a compromise and spread it evenly. And actually, it's NOT even. Most of the burden in Obama's 4 trillion dollar deal is STILL on the people who can afford it least.

 
I shouldn't even address you directly, Prox. Your final statement to me, that if I dont agree with you that means Im not being objective, only serves to highlight your narcissistic way of debating. But you still manage to draw me into your arguments once in a while.

I will say that, imo, both parties play the same games. Politicians on both sides of the aisle seem to be motivated by their own personal career advancement first, and what is 'right for the country' second. This latest political feeding frenzy, over the national debt ceiling, is a perfect example. Both parties have funded pork barrel spending, inefficient programs, and a 'spend first worry about how to pay for it later' attitude that has put us in this position. OMFG, if we dont raise the debt ceiling by Aug 9th, the world economy is going to collapse! Right? If our incompetent and self-serving politicians wouldn't have played their political games until literally weeks before this drop-dead-date, we wouldn't have to face such stark decisions. But they have played their games right up until we are out of money, so of course we as American citizens have no choice but to agree to increase Washington's credit limit. Where were your honest and trustworthy Democrats a few years ago when we knew this limit was coming? Where were they a year ago? Even a few months ago? Same place the Republicans were, on the floor of the House and Senate arguing for their own pork barrel spending ideas to benefit their constituents and gain them personal political power.

The Democrats argue they are for the average working guy, but they simply want to increase their credit limit. How far in debt must our govt become before we start realizing our children, and our children's children, are going to suffer severe consequences of our 'live for the moment and screw future generations' attitude? Middle class kids will grow up in an economic climate that is inferior to previous generations. Future generations of blue collar workers will suffer lower wages, and higher taxes, to pay for this generation's out of control spending habits.

And before you say Im claiming its only Democrats fault... where were those 'fiscally responsible' Republicans the past few decades while the national debt has gone up and up and up? Regan, Bush Sr and Jr, Republican controlled congresses... all playing the same game of hungry hungry hippos... grab everything you can before some other Republican, or god forbid democrat, grabs it first.

Both parties claim the moral high ground in fiscal responsibility, while both sides undermine each other just to spend the money where THEY want rather than where someone else or some other party wants. Keep playing right into their hands by blaming the 'other side' completely if you want, but the truth is both sides have plenty of blame to spread around.

Let me say it again. $45,000 for every man, woman and child in this country. Every infant. Every senior citizen on a fixed income. Every welfare mom and deadbeat dad. Every single one of them. So for those of us honest, hard working, tax paying citizens, the debt is much higher than $45k. And instead of our govt realizing this is an amazingly large burden that cant sustain itself, they are bickering over who gets the political black eye over raising that debt limit EVEN HIGHER. Washington, with its millionaire congressmen, billion dollar deals, and trillion dollar budgets, have lost perspective on reality. To the average person, a $45,000+ debt is a debilitating burden to place on their already weak earning power. The wheels are coming off the bus, but both democrats and republicans keep the pedal to the metal while arguing over who forgot to tighten the lugnuts. Lunacy. And your one-sided "its all the republicans fault" view only plays right into that game.

 
Really? If the democrats are willing to compromise then why did they veto the bill that the house passed to take care of teh debt ceiling? Why did Obama say he was going to kill it before it even passed? That's not compromise bro. Raising my taxes and not reducing your spending is not compromise bro. Psst, your last sentance doesn't even make sense. You know Obama is a democrat, right?
You are exactly right. I cant imagine how so many people are blind to the fact that our govt has a real and serious spending problem that isn't going to go away unless we force it to. We cant trust our politicians to make sensible and responsible decisions. We simply cant.

 
I shouldn't even address you directly, Prox. Your final statement to me, that if I dont agree with you that means Im not being objective, only serves to highlight your narcissistic way or debating. But you still manage to draw me into your arguments once in a while.
I will say that, imo, both parties play the same games. Politicians on both sides of the aisle seem to be motivated by their own personal career advancement first, and what is 'right for the country' second. This latest political feeding frenzy, over the national debt ceiling, is a perfect example. Both parties have funded pork barrel spending, inefficient programs, and a 'spend first worry about how to pay for it later' attitude that has put us in this position. OMFG, if we dont raise the debt ceiling by Aug 9th, the world economy is going to collapse! Right? If our incompetent and self-serving politicians wouldn't have played their political games until literally weeks before this drop-dead-date, we wouldn't have to face such stark decisions. But they have played their games right up until we are out of money, so of course we as American citizens have no choice but to agree to increase Washington's credit limit. Where we your honest and trustworthy Democrats a few years ago when we knew this limit was coming? Where were they a year ago? Even a few months ago? Same place the Republicans were, on the floor of the House and Senate arguing for their own pork barrel spending ideas to benefit their constituents and gain them personal political power.

The Democrats argue they are for the average working guy, but they simply want to increase their credit limit. How far in debt must our govt become before we start realizing our children, and our children's children, are going to suffer severe consequences of our 'live for the moment and screw future generations' attitude? Middle class kids will grow up in an economic climate that is inferior to previous generations. Future generations of blue collar workers will suffer lower wages, and higher taxes, to pay for this generation's out of control spending habits.

And before you say Im claiming its only Democrats fault... where were those 'fiscally responsible' Republicans the past few decades while the national debt has gone up and up and up? Regan, Bush Sr and Jr, Republican controlled congresses... all playing the same game of hungry hungry hippos... grab everything you can before some other Republican, or god forbid democrat, grabs it first.

Both parties claim the moral high ground in fiscal responsibility, while both sides undermine each other just to spend the money where THEY want rather than where someone else or some other party wants. Keep playing right into their hands by blaming the 'other side' completely if you want, but the truth is both sides have plenty of blame to spread around.

Let me say it again. $45,000 for every man, woman and child in this country. Every infant. Every senior citizen on a fixed income. Every welfare mom and deadbeat dad. Every single one of them. So for those of us honest, hard working, tax paying citizens, the debt is much higher than $45k. And instead of our govt realizing this is an amazingly large burden that cant sustain itself, they are bickering over who gets the political black eye over raising that debt limit EVEN HIGHER. Washington, with its millionaire congressmen, billion dollar deals, and trillion dollar budgets, have lost perspective on reality. To the average person, a $45,000+ debt is a debilitating burden to place on their already weak earning power. The wheels are coming off the bus, but both democrats and republicans keep the pedal to the metal while arguing over who forgot to tighten the lugnuts. Lunacy. And your one-sided "its all the republicans fault" view only plays right into that game.
couldnt agree more with 99% of this.

 
Really? If the democrats are willing to compromise then why did they veto the bill that the house passed to take care of teh debt ceiling? Why did Obama say he was going to kill it before it even passed? That's not compromise bro.
So compromise means doing only what the Republicans want? I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way. Also, you're use of veto shows you have no knowledge about our government.

You know Obama is a democrat, right?
Yes, it's called compromising. He was even swaying it in favor of the Republicans so they would actually support it. But it has Obama's name on it and they can't give him a victory.

 
I shouldn't even address you directly, Prox. Your final statement to me, that if I dont agree with you that means Im not being objective, only serves to highlight your narcissistic way of debating. But you still manage to draw me into your arguments once in a while.
I will say that, imo, both parties play the same games. Politicians on both sides of the aisle seem to be motivated by their own personal career advancement first, and what is 'right for the country' second. This latest political feeding frenzy, over the national debt ceiling, is a perfect example. Both parties have funded pork barrel spending, inefficient programs, and a 'spend first worry about how to pay for it later' attitude that has put us in this position. OMFG, if we dont raise the debt ceiling by Aug 9th, the world economy is going to collapse! Right? If our incompetent and self-serving politicians wouldn't have played their political games until literally weeks before this drop-dead-date, we wouldn't have to face such stark decisions. But they have played their games right up until we are out of money, so of course we as American citizens have no choice but to agree to increase Washington's credit limit. Where were your honest and trustworthy Democrats a few years ago when we knew this limit was coming? Where were they a year ago? Even a few months ago? Same place the Republicans were, on the floor of the House and Senate arguing for their own pork barrel spending ideas to benefit their constituents and gain them personal political power.
You didn't answer my question. We're here. Who got us here and how doesn't matter (well, it does, but not in the context of question). My question to you is do you really think that Democrats are acting and childish and foolishly as Republicans in the context of getting this debt ceiling raised?

And PS, "pork barrel spending" doesn't increase spending. It just allocates already spent money to a congressman's district.

The Democrats argue they are for the average working guy, but they simply want to increase their credit limit.
If Democrats are the ones who are fighting against the Republican's demands to put ALL of the debt burden on the average working guy, how can you imply that the Democrats aren't for that proverbial guy?

To the average person, a $45,000+ debt is a debilitating burden to place on their already weak earning power.
Thankfully, having a $45k debt on a per capita basis isn't actually anything at all like putting a $45k debt on any single person. But if you want to continue your analogy, let's look at the other parts of it. The US isn't going to have to pay off it's debt in a short period of time. We potentially have multiple hundred years to pay it off. So a $45k loan of, say, a 100 year term? Not so bad.

 
I also want a constitutional amendment that says they can't do this **** anymore.
Obviously our debt has grown out of control and we need to start making a surplus instead of huge deficits (note, however, the the enormous deficits of the past few years are caused solely by this recession, not any policies; and I hope this isn't too complicated for you, you know the difference between the debt and deficits, right?), but eliminating the ability of our government to borrow entirely is as stupid and debilitating as generating such a high debt in the first place.

Oh wait, the house passed that and the President vetoed it. Dang.
There is this thing called the Senate... You see, our legislature is bicam- actually, forget it. You're hopeless.

 
its the fact of the matter people only want to get into the government roles for the glamor and title. Most of what they campaign for, and state, are just to get their vote. hell i'll bet that someone will try and say they'll go for world peace just to get a few more votes.

i dont see how One person can Have control over so many others. there is absolutely nothing that makes one man better than another when it comes down to thinking about it. our government likes to play the blame game, and just say who did what wrong, and why. not compromise what we have, and to actually try and solve it, regardless if they get "re-elected".

no one will take a radical chance, to risk their popularity. they're just putting it off to stay in their seats.

I think they're assholes.

we're just on a downhill thats slowly going to collapse. yes communism isnt ever going to be a good idea.

but the fact is, everyone is in a smaller bracket to stagger off.

theirs not going to be the hugeeeee poverty line, and a small percentage of people owning the whole country.

i feel if we make a smaller window, say, lower middle class, to upper middle class, the whole region, paying for our debt would be easier.

thats a very small theory however.

 
You didn't answer my question. We're here. Who got us here and how doesn't matter (well, it does, but not in the context of question). My question to you is do you really think that Democrats are acting and childish and foolishly as Republicans in the context of getting this debt ceiling raised?
And PS, "pork barrel spending" doesn't increase spending. It just allocates already spent money to a congressman's district.

If Democrats are the ones who are fighting against the Republican's demands to put ALL of the debt burden on the average working guy, how can you imply that the Democrats aren't for that proverbial guy?

Thankfully, having a $45k debt on a per capita basis isn't actually anything at all like putting a $45k debt on any single person. But if you want to continue your analogy, let's look at the other parts of it. The US isn't going to have to pay off it's debt in a short period of time. We potentially have multiple hundred years to pay it off. So a $45k loan of, say, a 100 year term? Not so bad.
Yes, how we got here matters. If we do not confront the mistakes of the past, we will continue to make them (like believe a politician when he runs on "change" in the govt).

who I think is acting more 'childish' right this moment is what does not matter. To you, it does, because you think you have some foothold to blame the republicans and praise your favored democrats. Ive already explained why I feel both sides have equal blame in this debate, if you cant accept that as not blaming the republicans enough, tough. Do I think the democrats should be praised as looking out the for the 'average blue collar guy' by waiting until the last minute, just like republicans, to realize the ship is sinking? Of course not.

And PS, calling money "already spent" when it hasn't been allocated to a project, is a shell game. A shell game I know you are smart enough to see through, but refuse to, again, because the motive behind virtually everything you say is to blame republicans and absolve democrats. If that "already spent" money was not allocated to a pork barrel project, it could be refunded to the public in the form of lower taxes, put towards the national debt, or allocated to more worthy projects. If we were to accept your logic that the money is "already spent", we would have to buy into the idea that pork barrel spending is completely fine, because hey, the money is "already spent" anyway, might as well build a bridge to nowhere. You think a lot like a DC politician. And no, that is not a compliment.

The republicans, in theory, are arguing to lower spending, removing the tax burden from the average working guy. I say in theory, because they too have gotten us to this point, so obviously they only care about lowering taxes when it serves to advance their political agenda. Just like the Democrats claim they are for the average working guy by demanding only the rich pay off the debt they themselves (the democrats) have helped the republicans create in the first place.

Yes, you are right, we can pay off the debt over 100 years. Right? So the money we've spent today, will be helped to pay off by several generations to come. Blue collar, average working guy generations. Awesome plan! Go Democrats!

You are a reasonably intelligent guy prox. So it never ceases to amaze me how deep you have allowed yourself to be drawn into the propaganda the democratic party's machine puts out. I shouldn't be surprised, because you always blame the republicans for everything, and claim the world would be a utopia if only we had a one-party system (democrats)... and yet your short sightedness never ceases to amaze me. Maybe that's why I allow you to draw mew into these debates sometimes.

 
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