Current events discussion

Remain in Mexico:
That's not how it works, bro. You don't make a claim and then ask someone else to prove it for you.
It's tres cool to provide the facts that support your claim. Like a CFR or statute.

The video was interesting, but who is this guy? He's just reading stats and giving an op/ed as far as I can see.
What point did you think he was making?
Being independent:
Yes. But they don;t die if you leave them swaddled in a crib for an hour. I'm speaking of the ***** that cannot survive without being attached to the umbilical chord. Like a person intubated and on a respirator.
Destroying fertilized eggs:
Again, it's not my place to prove your claims for you.
I'd bet there are chicken farms in every state of the US that destroy fertilized eggs with regularity.
Having a parasite:
I'm not speaking to our feelings of how we as humans are more important than other creatures. You can see it in how people have no problem killing a chicken or a cow or a deer or a bear to eat, but a dog? NOT IN THE US!
How about a monkey or orangutan? Too much like a human! A panda bear? Too cute!
People value life based on their personal perceptions. Just because we are self-aware, we think our life is more important than other life. Nah, it's all the same sh*t. Life is life.

No, I'm speaking to the science of it. A zygote and ***** is a parasite in that it lives off of the host. It is not self-sustaining. To wit: "A parasite is an organism that lives on or in a host organism and gets its food from or at the expense of its host." A zygote (then *****) meets that definition be it in a human, a dog, a whale, or a tapeworm in your gut.
We as humans consider ourselves special and better because we have put ourselves artificially at the top of the food chain. Really, we're just another animal and are in the vast minority of animals on the planet. The other "non-self-aware" ones trounce us in population.
Contraceptive Bill:
No. The one I'm referring to is the one I referred to. The bill to ensure availability of contraception. The bill that 195 or-so Republicans voted against. They want the pharmacy to have the right to deny people the purchase of contraception.
The government cannot force the Church to perform marriages for same-*** couples. They have already agreed on that. The question is whether other non-religious institutions can ban same-*** couples, or whether civil-ceremonies for same-*** couples can be denied.
I have NO idea what carrying a knife in school has to do with it.
Abortions after birth:
I was very clear when I said that if the ***** can live without the host/mother, then it is too late for an abortion.
I also was very clear when I challenged your belief that pro-lifers have accepted abortion, but just want it to be early-stage.
I've seen no evidence of that. Can you show me something where they have made such a statement?
GOP pushing to overturn Roe v Wade:
And? The argument was that the GOP/Republicans had nothing to do with Roe v Wade being overturned. The GOP has declared themselves victorious in the change, but they had nothing to do with it? I find that interesting.
I do like how you mention Churches being burned down, but no acknowledgement of the Planned Parenthood bombings and murders by "pro-lifers".
I would like to know more about these church burnings. Can you provide some info on it?
A woman carrying a *****:
It has nothing to do with what human life "means to me". My feelings/opinions/beliefs are irrelevant in the face of the science. Please remember that feelings/beliefs/opinions on morality are different throughout the world.
Some people eat human flesh (every Sunday, in fact). Some people think it's OK to have 10 wives.
Some people think it's OK to stone your wife to death if she is *****. Some think it's Ok to **** your own wife; she is your property.
Some people force abortion of a female but not a male *****. Some people think their god will be mad if they eat pork. Some think their god will be mad if they eat meat on a Friday. Some think their god will be mad if they fall out of love with their wife and fall in love with another woman.

So, who has the "right" feelings/opinions/beliefs in the above mess? I'm sure each one who has them thinks they are right. But which one REALLY is?
I grew up on a farm...
Good point for discussion there: We'll euthanize a dying pet because it is "humane", but we'll deny a human the right to ******* when they are terminal. Instead, we require they suffer in pain until their body finally gives up, because that makes "god" happy.
And we think we are better than animals?
Morals in Government:
Morals and personal desires are two different things. See what I wrote above about feelings/beleifs/opinions/ Morals are part of that big picture. Do you want a guy ruling whether or not you can have *** with someone based on his personal morality? It wasn't that long ago that someone's personal moral code said interracial marriage should be illegal.
What about the moral code people had that said black people should not be allowed to use the same bathroom as others?
No, the government is not our moral compass. Nor should it be.
Religion in government:
It doesn't HAVE to be extreme. It's a simple fact regarding religion and government that ne'er the twain shall meet. They are not compatible, and they would not be providing equal treatment to all people. An atheist or Jew, or Muslim, etc, should never have to abide a law based on a tenet of Catholicism. And vice-versa.
Manson being Guilty:
They "ratted him out" but even the prosecution said he never told them directly to do anything. it was all about ideology. he got them to do what they did without telling them to do what they did.
Trump and the riot:
I'll ask you to read all the quotes and answer the same questions I asked Spokey.
With the electoral vote only hours away, how did he expect a "court decision" to change things? The court had already demanded proof of the "stolen vote", and Trump came up fully empty-handed.
So, what "fight" could give success to stop the vote in just a few hours' time?

What riots and insurrections to prevent an electoral (or any) vote took place at the behest of Democrats?
Please don't tell me to look it up, just give me the info


Watch these two videos

I watched them. I didn't see ANY evidence of the anti-Trump protests involving an attempt at insurrection or an attempt at a coup.
I did see a guy saying that Jan 6th was SUPPOSED to be a peaceful event (a lie, given the number of people busted with weapons, bombs, baseball bats, etc) and seemingly trying to minimize it by saying it was only the FIRST time Trump followers got violent (also a lie). Do we give Timothy McVeigh a pass since it was only the FIRST time he blew up that building? GMAFB

Can you tell me exactly what you wanted me to see tin that video? Were there reports of Democrats committing insurrection or a coup attempt that I did not see?
If not, then you're comparing apples to oranges.

But if you can show me how a protest is the same as insurrection and a coup attempt, I will stand down.

Good talking with someone who will actually debate back-and-forth like an adult instead of just posting stupid (an often incorrect) memes, spinning off on tangents that address nothing relevant, or simply resorting to ad-hominem.
 
Rob nothing you say is backed by science or fact...what you say is based on your OPINION of science or fact...and that OPINION is solely based on finding something to argue and rant about...
 
1000005443.jpg
 
That's not how it works, bro. You don't make a claim and then ask someone else to prove it for you.
It's tres cool to provide the facts that support your claim. Like a CFR or statute.

The video was interesting, but who is this guy? He's just reading stats and giving an op/ed as far as I can see.
What point did you think he was making?

Yes. But they don;t die if you leave them swaddled in a crib for an hour. I'm speaking of the ***** that cannot survive without being attached to the umbilical chord. Like a person intubated and on a respirator.

Again, it's not my place to prove your claims for you.
I'd bet there are chicken farms in every state of the US that destroy fertilized eggs with regularity.

I'm not speaking to our feelings of how we as humans are more important than other creatures. You can see it in how people have no problem killing a chicken or a cow or a deer or a bear to eat, but a dog? NOT IN THE US!
How about a monkey or orangutan? Too much like a human! A panda bear? Too cute!
People value life based on their personal perceptions. Just because we are self-aware, we think our life is more important than other life. Nah, it's all the same sh*t. Life is life.

No, I'm speaking to the science of it. A zygote and ***** is a parasite in that it lives off of the host. It is not self-sustaining. To wit: "A parasite is an organism that lives on or in a host organism and gets its food from or at the expense of its host." A zygote (then *****) meets that definition be it in a human, a dog, a whale, or a tapeworm in your gut.
We as humans consider ourselves special and better because we have put ourselves artificially at the top of the food chain. Really, we're just another animal and are in the vast minority of animals on the planet. The other "non-self-aware" ones trounce us in population.

No. The one I'm referring to is the one I referred to. The bill to ensure availability of contraception. The bill that 195 or-so Republicans voted against. They want the pharmacy to have the right to deny people the purchase of contraception.
The government cannot force the Church to perform marriages for same-*** couples. They have already agreed on that. The question is whether other non-religious institutions can ban same-*** couples, or whether civil-ceremonies for same-*** couples can be denied.
I have NO idea what carrying a knife in school has to do with it.

I was very clear when I said that if the ***** can live without the host/mother, then it is too late for an abortion.
I also was very clear when I challenged your belief that pro-lifers have accepted abortion, but just want it to be early-stage.
I've seen no evidence of that. Can you show me something where they have made such a statement?

And? The argument was that the GOP/Republicans had nothing to do with Roe v Wade being overturned. The GOP has declared themselves victorious in the change, but they had nothing to do with it? I find that interesting.
I do like how you mention Churches being burned down, but no acknowledgement of the Planned Parenthood bombings and murders by "pro-lifers".
I would like to know more about these church burnings. Can you provide some info on it?

It has nothing to do with what human life "means to me". My feelings/opinions/beliefs are irrelevant in the face of the science. Please remember that feelings/beliefs/opinions on morality are different throughout the world.
Some people eat human flesh (every Sunday, in fact). Some people think it's OK to have 10 wives.
Some people think it's OK to stone your wife to death if she is *****. Some think it's Ok to **** your own wife; she is your property.
Some people force abortion of a female but not a male *****. Some people think their god will be mad if they eat pork. Some think their god will be mad if they eat meat on a Friday. Some think their god will be mad if they fall out of love with their wife and fall in love with another woman.

So, who has the "right" feelings/opinions/beliefs in the above mess? I'm sure each one who has them thinks they are right. But which one REALLY is?

Good point for discussion there: We'll euthanize a dying pet because it is "humane", but we'll deny a human the right to ******* when they are terminal. Instead, we require they suffer in pain until their body finally gives up, because that makes "god" happy.
And we think we are better than animals?

Morals and personal desires are two different things. See what I wrote above about feelings/beleifs/opinions/ Morals are part of that big picture. Do you want a guy ruling whether or not you can have *** with someone based on his personal morality? It wasn't that long ago that someone's personal moral code said interracial marriage should be illegal.
What about the moral code people had that said black people should not be allowed to use the same bathroom as others?
No, the government is not our moral compass. Nor should it be.

It doesn't HAVE to be extreme. It's a simple fact regarding religion and government that ne'er the twain shall meet. They are not compatible, and they would not be providing equal treatment to all people. An atheist or Jew, or Muslim, etc, should never have to abide a law based on a tenet of Catholicism. And vice-versa.

They "ratted him out" but even the prosecution said he never told them directly to do anything. it was all about ideology. he got them to do what they did without telling them to do what they did.

I'll ask you to read all the quotes and answer the same questions I asked Spokey.
With the electoral vote only hours away, how did he expect a "court decision" to change things? The court had already demanded proof of the "stolen vote", and Trump came up fully empty-handed.
So, what "fight" could give success to stop the vote in just a few hours' time?

What riots and insurrections to prevent an electoral (or any) vote took place at the behest of Democrats?
Please don't tell me to look it up, just give me the info

I watched them. I didn't see ANY evidence of the anti-Trump protests involving an attempt at insurrection or an attempt at a coup.
I did see a guy saying that Jan 6th was SUPPOSED to be a peaceful event (a lie, given the number of people busted with weapons, bombs, baseball bats, etc) and seemingly trying to minimize it by saying it was only the FIRST time Trump followers got violent (also a lie). Do we give Timothy McVeigh a pass since it was only the FIRST time he blew up that building? GMAFB

Can you tell me exactly what you wanted me to see tin that video? Were there reports of Democrats committing insurrection or a coup attempt that I did not see?
If not, then you're comparing apples to oranges.

But if you can show me how a protest is the same as insurrection and a coup attempt, I will stand down.

Good talking with someone who will actually debate back-and-forth like an adult instead of just posting stupid (an often incorrect) memes, spinning off on tangents that address nothing relevant, or simply resorting to ad-hominem.
You just keep doing it. You keep looking at everything I said with a narrow perspective. You only looked at the small parts you thought you could argue rather than agree to.

You portray yourself as and educated person. However, you go into these discussions with such a narrow mind. Is it pride, a game, or are you just now capable of broadening your thought? I'm not trying to diss on you. I'm just trying to understand your thought process.

So far, I show you facts and instead of admitting what is proven, you find a reason to spin off it.

Here's a perfect example. You talk about Trump telling people to start in insurrection, but you can't show where he actually says it. Just words about him telling people to fight. If you watch the entire speech, you will see that he is telling the people to protest to have the courts examine data on for the votes that are questionable. No where does he tell the people to storm the capital and take out as many government officials as possible. No where was he telling the people to go and beat up a law maker. However, I showed you a video where the democrats where literally saying that.

As for dems causing an insurrection, the video shows all those democrats telling people to go out to the streets and fight like their life depended on it, and punching Trump in the face is a good thing.

The video even had dems telling everyone they know the election was stolen in 2016. They even ran an investigation saying that Russia colluded in Trump's win. Why did they allow that investigation and not Trumps request for an investigation?

Here is an insurrection that was motivated by the dems. If you're so sensitive towards insurrections, this one probably pissed you off really bad.



Insurrection: a violent uprising against an authority or government.

So, by definition, all of those protests, against Trump, was an insurrection. Even the ones that burned down city blocks, caused multiple deaths, had innocent passersby's ripped out of their cars and beaten, store looted, women sexually assaulted, etc... You know, all of these other things you appear to not want to admit happened.

Prop 8 riots were really bad. Did a quick search for the church that was lit on fire, but didn't find it. However, it was a Mormon church that was a few miles from me, in the Bay Area. I'm sure you're just going to deny it happened anyways.

Here's a list of issues.
 
Rob nothing you say is backed by science or fact...what you say is based on your OPINION of science or fact...and that OPINION is solely based on finding something to argue and rant about...
You think that when I post scientific evidence, economic statistics, video proof of someone saying something, that is somehow posting my "opinion"? That's like Thxone claiming bone innervation is only an unproved "theory", and that a word-for-word copy of his post is not a quote, but an interpretation.

FFS, you posted a word definition in support of your claim and then decided the definition was wrong when it was shown the definition didn't support your claim.
Apparently, you have no clue about the difference between fact and opinion.

You need to learn what the word OPINION means. Try not to be as poorly versed in the language as that other guy.
 
You just keep doing it. You keep looking at everything I said with a narrow perspective. You only looked at the small parts you thought you could argue rather than agree to.
This reads like you're asking me to agree with your opinions and beliefs when they have zero basis in fact. Sorry chief, no can do.
You portray yourself as and educated person. However, you go into these discussions with such a narrow mind. Is it pride, a game, or are you just now capable of broadening your thought? I'm not trying to diss on you. I'm just trying to understand your thought process.
I "portray myself as an educated person"? What does that mean? I went to school and I admit that. I read a lot and I admit that. I retain a lot and I admit that. I eschew beliefs and personal opinion when arguing matters of politics, science, data and statistics.
Beliefs and opinions should be argued about your favorite team, your favorite restaurant, your favorite color.
They have no place in science, politics, statistics.
So far, I show you facts and instead of admitting what is proven, you find a reason to spin off it.
What facts have you shown me that I have "spun off" of?
Here's a perfect example. You talk about Trump telling people to start in insurrection, but you can't show where he actually says it. Just words about him telling people to fight. If you watch the entire speech, you will see that he is telling the people to protest to have the courts examine data on for the votes that are questionable. No where does he tell the people to storm the capital and take out as many government officials as possible. No where was he telling the people to go and beat up a law maker. However, I showed you a video where the democrats where literally saying that.
OK. I asked Spokey this (and expectedly got no response), so I'll ask you: If you KNOW what Trump did NOT mean with his words, please explain what he DID mean with his words. Refer to all the quotes from his speech.
Describe in detail what he meant. Explain why he would be telling people to "fight like hell" if there was NOTHING they could legally do to change the vote.
WHAT exactly was he exhorting them to do with all those words about stopping the election of Biden?
As for dems causing an insurrection, the video shows all those democrats telling people to go out to the streets and fight like their life depended on it, and punching Trump in the face is a good thing.
How does fighting in the streets result in stopping the electoral process or attempting a coup?
You do know that the events of Jan 6th happened in the Capitol building on the day Biden was to be officially voted in, and the insurrection was an attempt to stop the process, yes?
"Punch Trump in the face"? You realize that Trump and his sycophants wanted to hang Mike Pence because he didn't agree with stopping the electoral vote, yes?

You seem to be angry with rioters in general. Do you feel they should be punished if caught?
If so, how do you feel about Trump's promise to free the Jan 6th insurrectionists if he gets elected?
Good deal, or bad?

The video even had dems telling everyone they know the election was stolen in 2016. They even ran an investigation saying that Russia colluded in Trump's win. Why did they allow that investigation and not Trumps request for an investigation?
What do you mean "allow" an investigation? As POTUS and self-proclaimed multi-billionaire, Trump could investigate anything he wanted. If you're suggesting he is so powerless that he couldn't (as POTUS) get anything he wanted investigated, then is he really a guy you want as POTUS?
We keep hearing how Biden is the dark underlord of the country and is doing all KINDS of wild stuff. But Trump can't even get an investigation rolling? He sounds pathetic.
Here is an insurrection that was motivated by the dems. If you're so sensitive towards insurrections, this one probably pissed you off really bad.

Insurrection: a violent uprising against an authority or government.

I think that was horrible on many levels. Just as I thought it was horrible when Reagan was shot, when Brady was shot, when the Kennedys were shot, and so on.
It's a perfect example of people who turn to violence or other actions instead of using their brain. You've seen examples of it on this forum. It pisses me off b/c it demonstrates the horrible state of our helthcare system and how people with mental illness are handled.
It pisses me off because anti-gun nuts immediately grab onto it as a way to say guns are bad, while ignoring the fact that no gun has ever taken action on its own and killed someone.
It pisses me off because the whole situation ends up not being at all about the injured or killed, but just another tool for people to get their way by molding people's opinions through their heartstrings.
It's just sh*t all around.
So, by definition, all of those protests, against Trump, was an insurrection. Even the ones that burned down city blocks, caused multiple deaths, had innocent passersby's ripped out of their cars and beaten, store looted, women sexually assaulted, etc... You know, all of these other things you appear to not want to admit happened.
I never denied any of them happened, and I have said this multiple times. If you think I have, you are thinking of the wrong guy. And I'll ask this: As a brand new member with very few posts, how would you claim to know my opinion on a topic that hasn't really been discussed during your tenure here?
Are you someone who got booted and made a comeback, or a dupe account for someone else here?

Regardless, I don't see where any of the riots were an attempt to interrupt the electoral vote for a president to get into office, on the DAY of the electoral vote.
Which protest are you talking about where they tried to prevent the completion of an election process?
I assume you would be talking about it happening to a Republican nominee. Was it Trump, or Bush "2", Bush "1", Reagan, or going back even further?
Which protest was an attempt at a coup?
Prop 8 riots were really bad. Did a quick search for the church that was lit on fire, but didn't find it. However, it was a Mormon church that was a few miles from me, in the Bay Area. I'm sure you're just going to deny it happened anyways.
I looked it up and they list all of the places of worship that were vandalized, even detailing the type of vandalism. They do mention that at one place, someone set the book of Mormon on fire. There is nothing about a house of worship being set on fire, or burned down. That would be a pretty big deal that you'd expect to be listed along with the other details, but the only thing I can find regarding Mormon anything being burned is a ton of news on that book being set ablaze on the steps of a church.
So, I can't say it never happened, but there seems to be no info to support the claim. And that would be quite unusual, given the amount of press it all got.
Yes. I read that. And while I don't support the way people fought for their rights, it is the perfect example of why the state shouldn't be involved in matters of religion and morality.
Why do religious people think that everyone must follow THEIR religious beliefs, and that laws should result from their belief of an imaginary bearded man in the sky?
Would you be OK if the tables were turned and your state instituted a law that you wife and daughter must wear a burka because a religion demands it?
Would you be OK if the state made it illegal for you to eat pork because a religion forbids it?
Would you be Ok if the state made it illegal for you to even PRACTICE a religion because the STATE forbade it?
I would be interested in genuine answers to these questions, and may even include the "why" to you answer.

This is all stuff you have to think of in the big picture of our country. Your religion is not EVERYONE'S religion, and your religion should not be a basis of law that applies to everyone.
Heck, the First Amendment even says it: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."
"Known as the establishment clause, the opening lines of the First Amendment prohibit the government from creating an official religion or favoring one religion (or nonreligion) over another."
If you create a law based on a rule of Catholicism (Thou shall not commit adultery), then you are favoring a religion over a religion (or non-religion) that may have no such rule, such as the Mormons.

How ironic is it that the Mormons are OK with polygmay, but not polyandry, or same-*** marriage?
 
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