What is?

[SlugButter]

We were seriously thinking of moving. Even when price wasn't an issue, we got outbid on home after home because Californians were moving here paying cash with no inspection or appraisal and we were financing. TBH, our home would be pretty hard to afford if it weren't for my VA loan at 2.375%.

I do it the hard way. The house I’m in now was totally trashed. There was a water leak from bad plumbing for over a month before anyone realized it. High water bill in a vacant house is a bad sign. It was remodeled by a tweaker squirrel with 3 bad eyes. The roof was the only thing that was good. I did a quick remodel on 1 bedroom a bathroom and the kitchen and spent 10 years slowly remodeling. Now it’s worth 4 times the money I paid for it, and I’m looking for another to do the same with, only this time I’m spending 4 times the money and start out with a bit more property and maybe go off grid.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

You have to wait till they sell . Elon musk sold a lot of stock and paid out the anus cause of it. If they are willing to let it sit, they aren’t enjoying that money. When they sell it you hit them with the taxes which is fair. If a wealthy person buys stock, that money used to buy it is already taxed. A person like elon musk worth billions due to his companies stock worth means nothing until he sells it. Granted, many of these people can tap into credit since banks know they can pay it back but that only buys a person time. Eventually you wanna put that money tied up in stocks to use you have to sell it.

You don't have to wait. People like Musk and Bezos rack up massive fortunes that go untaxed because it's all in stocks. Then they put those stocks in trusts and pass that wealth to their kids to avoid their kids having to pay taxes on that wealth.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

I do it the hard way. The house I’m in now was totally trashed. There was a water leak from bad plumbing for over a month before anyone realized it. High water bill in a vacant house is a bad sign. It was remodeled by a tweaker squirrel with 3 bad eyes. The roof was the only thing that was good. I did a quick remodel on 1 bedroom a bathroom and the kitchen and spent 10 years slowly remodeling. Now it’s worth 4 times the money I paid for it, and I’m looking for another to do the same with, only this time I’m spending 4 times the money and start out with a bit more property and maybe go off grid.

You could just wait a year in Denver, do nothing and your home quadruples in value.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

You might be shy by about a million families, but If we earmarked at least $10k of your idea for education on household finances, plus made sure there was a job for every worker, we could probably do it for a LOT less than $500k per family.

I think there's alot more than education involved. Drug and alcohol abuse will be problem.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

I understand you don't make a profit until you sell. However, we have very very wealthy people who making a shyt-ton of money and avoiding taxes by keeping their money tied up in assets. How do you propose we tax these folks or should we continue to not tax them?

If we gave a bunch of people $500k it probably be like the lottery effect and many would end up worse off.

Do national sale tax then and do away with income tax...everyone pays their fair share then...wealthy people spend money too

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

I think there's alot more than education involved. Drug and alcohol abuse will be problem.

We at the top (or very close) on education spending already...it's not the silver bullet...

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

I think there's alot more than education involved. Drug and alcohol abuse will be problem.

Sounds like Congress

 

[djdilliodon!]

You don't have to wait. People like Musk and Bezos rack up massive fortunes that go untaxed because it's all in stocks. Then they put those stocks in trusts and pass that wealth to their kids to avoid their kids having to pay taxes on that wealth.

Their kids want that money in the stocks, they would have to sell it and pay taxes on it. Elon in 2021 paid $11 billion in taxes cause he sold shares. Adding this to the tax code I don’t see ever happening as it’s only popular with socialist type democrats. Nancy pelosi would definitely not be ok with this .

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Do national sale tax then and do away with income tax...everyone pays their fair share then...wealthy people spend money too

National sales tax is regressive.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Their kids want that money in the stocks, they would have to sell it and pay taxes on it. Elon in 2021 paid $11 billion in taxes cause he sold shares. Adding this to the tax code I don’t see ever happening as it’s only popular with socialist type democrats. Nancy pelosi would definitely not be ok with this .

Their kids don't pay taxes now. So Elon Musk makes billions (keep in mind he used gov't grants to help start Tesla, and the gov't subsidises the purchase of his cars) and won't be taxed on the majority of it. Then he'll pass these stocks along to his children in a trust fund - again no taxes will be incurred. Why is it that everybody but the "socialist democrats" wants to make sure we don't tax the wealthy and that 99% pay all the taxes even as we subsidise the insanely wealthy? Then those same "non-socialist democrats" will ***** about how high taxes are.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

The problem with taxes is that anything paid for in taxes has incredible waste. So much of the money you pay for in taxes goes to supporting the functioning of the centralized system processing the taxes and not actually going to things to benefit society. So much of our tax money just get used by the middle men, funneled off to something that doesn’t benefit us. The more taxes we have from giving the gov control over sectors, like healthcare, the less efficient those sectors will function.

Taxes just keep going up, and we just aren’t getting good return on our investments, because centralized systems are so inefficient and costly to run, not to mention the corruption in how tax dollars are used. If you want to pay taxes so everything is free in the US, prepare for extremely low quality of service, lol. It’s a shit way to operate; it’s just extremely inefficient.

 

[djdilliodon!]

Their kids don't pay taxes now. So Elon Musk makes billions (keep in mind he used gov't grants to help start Tesla, and the gov't subsidises the purchase of his cars) and won't be taxed on the majority of it. Then he'll pass these stocks along to his children in a trust fund - again no taxes will be incurred. Why is it that everybody but the "socialist democrats" wants to make sure we don't tax the wealthy and that 99% pay all the taxes even as we subsidise the insanely wealthy? Then those same "non-socialist democrats" will ***** about how high taxes are.

We can tax them, but you can’t tax profits that aren’t in your pocket. You start taxing stocks without the sale of stocks, all people are going to do is a portfolio rebalance and the stock market is gonna go right down the tubes. I’ve done this a few times myself and the final time when the market was really down. Depending how you do it taxes still can be paid but there are ways to make the burden as low as possible or none at all. Imagine this, elon musk sells all of his stock in Tesla and pays 20% in taxes. He puts all the money in a Roth IRA which will average 7-10% per year. In 2-3 years he will make all that money in taxes paid back. After that it’s all profit. When he turns 59.5 years old he can withdraw from that tax free. The negative side would be he wouldn’t be the biggest share holder in Tesla. You start taxing the stock market by value without shares being sold and I bet you see this happen. You might get a quick 20%, but the stock market will suffer and all of these guys will make that money right back in 2-3 years and all that money the gains they make now will be 100% tax free. Of course if they touch it when 59.5 years old and held it for at least 5 years.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

“She said: “I will name just one Pentagon project, called Allied Insects.”

Russia fears US is training genetically modified attack mosquitoes

PARANOID Russian politicians fear America is training genetically modified attack mosquitoes to launch an assault on Moscow. Kremlin MPs believe scientists are working on how to infect the insects …

www.the-sun.com

Wtf is this mad science:

“To develop such countermeasures, Insect Allies performer teams are leveraging a natural and efficient two-step delivery system to transfer modified genes to plants: insect vectors and the plant viruses they transmit. The program’s three technical areas—viral manipulation, insect vector optimization, and selective gene therapy in mature plants—layer together to support the goal of rapidly modifying plant traits without the need for extensive infrastructure.”

https://www.darpa.mil/program/insect-allies

^^^I bet that has to do with Bill Gates releasing GMO mosquitos.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

National sales tax is regressive.

All taxes are regressive...

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

We can tax them, but you can’t tax profits that aren’t in your pocket. You start taxing stocks without the sale of stocks, all people are going to do is a portfolio rebalance and the stock market is gonna go right down the tubes. I’ve done this a few times myself and the final time when the market was really down. Depending how you do it taxes still can be paid but there are ways to make the burden as low as possible or none at all. Imagine this, elon musk sells all of his stock in Tesla and pays 20% in taxes. He puts all the money in a Roth IRA which will average 7-10% per year. In 2-3 years he will make all that money in taxes paid back. After that it’s all profit. When he turns 59.5 years old he can withdraw from that tax free. The negative side would be he wouldn’t be the biggest share holder in Tesla. You start taxing the stock market by value without shares being sold and I bet you see this happen. You might get a quick 20%, but the stock market will suffer and all of these guys will make that money right back in 2-3 years and all that money the gains they make now will be 100% tax free. Of course if they touch it when 59.5 years old and held it for at least 5 years.

Max annual ROTH IRA contribution is $7000/year, so no your scenario isn't going to happen.

If Musk's stocks went up say $10b in 2021, he'd have to come up with a "measley" $2b (probably thru a stock sale). Furthermore, Musk's purchase of Twitter wouldn't have created that huge tax bill for him (like it did under current tax code) because his wealth didn't increase. Since Twitter lost value (as did Tesla), Musk can book loses and carry those forward to avoid taxes until he recovers his lost wealth. Such a tax system might actually lead to more purchases like the Twitter purchase which IMHO is a good thing. I'd rather have rich dudes making their socio-political statements in the market than via the purchase of politicians (not that Musk doesn't own politicians too). The stock market isn't going to collapse if the rich actually have to pay on the wealth they accumulate. Stock market prices ebb and flow with Fed Policy.