What is?

[SlugButter]

Single payer would work just fine. Big Pharma would have to renegotiate pricing elsewhere or they could fold up shop, which would mean their patents could be bought up cheap by new phama companies or govt's or become open source. On one hand I keep hearing that Big Pharma is Evil, but we can't let them collapse? That's crazy talk.

The only reason single payer systems can negotiate for cheap drugs is because big pharma recovers their profits by charging Americans the difference. The economies of Europe would collapse with big pharma, which is a problem. No one cares if big pharma collapses if it wouldn’t bring down Europe with them.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

The only reason single payer systems can negotiate for cheap drugs is because big pharma recovers their profits by charging Americans the difference. The economies of Europe would collapse with big pharma, which is a problem. No one cares if big pharma collapses if it wouldn’t bring down Europe with them.

European ecomonies won't collapse if they have to pay an appropriate price for their drugs.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

The problem isn’t just pharmas. It’s the triangle of providers, pharma, insurers.

For healthcare to be affordable, one or all of them has to take a pay cut. None are volunteering.
Do we ask government to step in and make them? Kind of a scary idea in a capitalist society. But maybe universal healthcare would force the issue.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Told you :

‘The mode of action of COVID-19 mRNA vaccines should classify them as gene therapy products (GTPs), but they have been excluded by regulatory agencies.’

mRNA: Vaccine or Gene Therapy? The Safety Regulatory Issues

COVID-19 vaccines were developed and approved rapidly in response to the urgency created by the pandemic. No specific regulations existed at the time they were marketed. The regulatory agencies therefore adapted them as a matter of urgency. Now that the pandemic emergency has passed, it is time...

www.mdpi.com

 

[djdilliodon!]

Many countries that have “free” Healthcare have very high tax rates. Take Sweden for example, it can be 60.1%. Canada the tax rate is high but also the cost of goods is about double then what we pay. Would these places be able to handle the higher cost if we didn’t pay what we do now? I have no idea but will say I wouldn’t be game to pay higher taxes then what I already do. I think I pay enough

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Told you :

‘The mode of action of COVID-19 mRNA vaccines should classify them as gene therapy products (GTPs), but they have been excluded by regulatory agencies.’

mRNA: Vaccine or Gene Therapy? The Safety Regulatory Issues

COVID-19 vaccines were developed and approved rapidly in response to the urgency created by the pandemic. No specific regulations existed at the time they were marketed. The regulatory agencies therefore adapted them as a matter of urgency. Now that the pandemic emergency has passed, it is time...

www.mdpi.com

I've read up on them, they aren't quiet gene therapy as in they aren't modifying/fixing genes.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Many countries that have “free” Healthcare have very high tax rates. Take Sweden for example, it can be 60.1%. Canada the tax rate is high but also the cost of goods is about double then what we pay. Would these places be able to handle the higher cost if we didn’t pay what we do now? I have no idea but will say I wouldn’t be game to pay higher taxes then what I already do. I think I pay enough

The US war machine is also what keeps a lot of these nations safe; aka we pay for a lot of their safety.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I've read up on them, they aren't quiet gene therapy as in they aren't modifying/fixing genes.

Hopefully they aren’t modifying genes, but that is a capability with MRNA injections. Iirc, there’s an MRNA combo with CRISPR to do gene editing, that’s something they’re working on for say cancer. Regardless, if you go look at how MRNA was talked about pre-covid from the people doing MRNA product testing, they indicated it was a form or at least derived from gene therapy. It’s not really a vaccine; they had to change the definition to consider MRNA a vaccine. I think they’re closer to gene therapy than a true vaccine.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Many countries that have “free” Healthcare have very high tax rates. Take Sweden for example, it can be 60.1%. Canada the tax rate is high but also the cost of goods is about double then what we pay. Would these places be able to handle the higher cost if we didn’t pay what we do now? I have no idea but will say I wouldn’t be game to pay higher taxes then what I already do. I think I pay enough

I think you need to look at the big/bigger picture. We have lots of guys like Trump, that pay little to no taxes, yet own a gold plated Central Park Penthouse. Our corporate tax rate looks high, but reality is we give so many write offs that the effective corporate tax rate is quiet low. Furthermore, we borrow, borrow and borrow some more to fund our gov't, in essence we're transferring wealth from future generations into our pockets. There are lots of countries achieving superior healthcare outcomes while spending ~1/2 as much per capitia to get those results.

 

[SlugButter]

I think you need to look at the big/bigger picture. We have lots of guys like Trump, that pay little to no taxes, yet own a gold plated Central Park Penthouse. Our corporate tax rate looks high, but reality is we give so many write offs that the effective corporate tax rate is quiet low. Furthermore, we borrow, borrow and borrow some more to fund our gov't, in essence we're transferring wealth from future generations into our pockets. There are lots of countries achieving superior healthcare outcomes while spending ~1/2 as much per capitia to get those results.

You could look a little more into the numbers before you claim that others need to look at the bigger picture. I have no desire or time to really get into it, but it’s like the infant mortality rate. In America we try to save every single baby even if the baby has serious preexisting conditions, and we count said baby in the infant mortality rate. In Europe, most babies with serious preexisting conditions have little attempt to be saved or delivered, and they don’t count those babies that were never delivered in the infant mortality rate. It skews the number, then people who saw a Facebook meme once can claim “they know the numbers”. Come on man.

 

[djdilliodon!]

I think you need to look at the big/bigger picture. We have lots of guys like Trump, that pay little to no taxes, yet own a gold plated Central Park Penthouse. Our corporate tax rate looks high, but reality is we give so many write offs that the effective corporate tax rate is quiet low. Furthermore, we borrow, borrow and borrow some more to fund our gov't, in essence we're transferring wealth from future generations into our pockets. There are lots of countries achieving superior healthcare outcomes while spending ~1/2 as much per capitia to get those results.

One must look at those corporations and see how many people they employee, and how much tax revenue is generated from those they employ. Giving those jobs gets them a perk of being able to write certain things off. Many of these places give employers medical coverage, stock options, and say pensions. One must also look into what the profits of that corporation are tied up in like let’s say stocks. It would be insane to tax someone on shares they own that they don’t sell. The prices fluctuate and isn’t guaranteed. Then you have to understand that trying to tax someone who is worth billions of dollars in a very high fashion can drive them to go somewhere else. Look what has happened over the last 3 years with California and New York. Combined both states lost nearly $100 billion is tax revenue from people fleeing to red states like florida. I’d be one of those people but I have more time to do on my 9-5 to earn my full pension. It’s the only thing holding me back. I don’t think it’s just that simple by taxing the rich more. Some loop holes can be closed but I think it’s gotta be within reason. Can’t just say hey half of what you made we gotta take it .

 

[Firewalker]

Facts are the best times in this country when people made a living wage to support a family where mom didn't work, roads were built, infrastructure was built was during the 1950's when taxes on the rich were actually high unlike today. They constantly get tax breaks, lower taxes and what not. Perfect example is the oil companies they get billions in profits every year sometimes setting records for a quarter but yet get billions in tax breaks. GE makes billions in profits but yet for a few years they didn't pay taxes or got a refund.

Another example of where insurance is cheap and works great is England. My friends over there pay at most 20-30 dollars for private insurance yet have better coverage then we do here. And the quality of service is still top notch and is better in many aspects.

Same with internet speeds. We are a third world country in regards to internet speeds. People across the world have had 1 gig speeds or much much higher for years and years. Only now is 1 gig speeds becoming available in some markets. And the costs of it once again so cheap compared to here 20-40 bucks for it at most with the modem included. Have friends in a few countries and they are always astounded at how much people pay here for it.

Yes we get some things cheaper like electronics and what not then the other countries. But they get benefits back ten fold compared to here from a lot of countries. People who are Disabled are actually taken care of and don't have to fight for benefits unlike here where I have to fight constantly just to get anything if I am lucky enough. Same with Senior Citizens as well.

Also employers overseas also know that a rested worker is a productive worker which is why you see them from the first day you start give out vacation days. At a lot of them in Europe they give out 2-4 weeks of vacation within 90 days. After that they give out more and more. Friend in France after 5 years had 12 weeks of vacation at his job. Friend in England and the other in Amsterdam both had 10 weeks after 5 years with 12 after 7 or 8 years. Workers over there are much less stressed then workers here in America. After a year most places give you a week of vacation and it takes years years to build it up to 7-8 weeks if you are lucky. Some places like Mobil are not like that but they are the exception. And all that stuff about medical coverage, stock options and pensions happen over there as well.

Yep those countries pay higher taxes from the bottom on up then we do and the Rich actually pay taxes but the benefits they get back from them pay for those and are worth it.

 

[SlugButter]

Facts are the best times in this country when people made a living wage to support a family where mom didn't work, roads were built, infrastructure was built was during the 1950's when taxes on the rich were actually high unlike today. They constantly get tax breaks, lower taxes and what not. Perfect example is the oil companies they get billions in profits every year sometimes setting records for a quarter but yet get billions in tax breaks. GE makes billions in profits but yet for a few years they didn't pay taxes or got a refund.

Another example of where insurance is cheap and works great is England. My friends over there pay at most 20-30 dollars for private insurance yet have better coverage then we do here. And the quality of service is still top notch and is better in many aspects.

Same with internet speeds. We are a third world country in regards to internet speeds. People across the world have had 1 gig speeds or much much higher for years and years. Only now is 1 gig speeds becoming available in some markets. And the costs of it once again so cheap compared to here 20-40 bucks for it at most with the modem included. Have friends in a few countries and they are always astounded at how much people pay here for it.

Yes we get some things cheaper like electronics and what not then the other countries. But they get benefits back ten fold compared to here from a lot of countries. People who are Disabled are actually taken care of and don't have to fight for benefits unlike here where I have to fight constantly just to get anything if I am lucky enough. Same with Senior Citizens as well.

Also employers overseas also know that a rested worker is a productive worker which is why you see them from the first day you start give out vacation days. At a lot of them in Europe they give out 2-4 weeks of vacation within 90 days. After that they give out more and more. Friend in France after 5 years had 12 weeks of vacation at his job. Friend in England and the other in Amsterdam both had 10 weeks after 5 years with 12 after 7 or 8 years. Workers over there are much less stressed then workers here in America. After a year most places give you a week of vacation and it takes years years to build it up to 7-8 weeks if you are lucky. Some places like Mobil are not like that but they are the exception. And all that stuff about medical coverage, stock options and pensions happen over there as well.

Yep those countries pay higher taxes from the bottom on up then we do and the Rich actually pay taxes but the benefits they get back from them pay for those and are worth it.

Workers in Europe don’t have a giant war machine to pay for. They spend a bare minimum on their own military because Nato is protecting Europe with the US military. Let’s seriously cut back our military spending and bring it home and give our workers some love. Let’s also make Europe pay for their own prescription drugs and stop fleecing poor Americans for the money. Europe will fail miserably, but fvck them. Right?

 

[SlugButter]

We aren’t going to be able to pencil whip the problem. The numbers won’t work out. Most of our economies have serious bubbles that will burst. China is finding out how pencil whipping doesn’t work with the real estate collapse they’re trying to hold together. The biggest real estate bubble in the world is in the worlds fastest growing economy. We are all so much connected now economically that a China real estate bubble burst will hurt the US also. It’s seriously complicated, and I’m not sure there is economist on earth who can piece together dozens of different style economies interconnected together and make sense of it.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]