Winners only.

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Sometimes it's cuz they went off their meds.

It’s disappointing that mental health issues didn’t prevent him from getting a gun, but he could just as easily have mowed people down with a car, thin shot himself.

Yet, this will just fuel the anti-gun rhetoric.

“Assault rifle”. GMAFB

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

It’s disappointing that mental health issues didn’t prevent him from getting a gun, but he could just as easily have mowed people down with a car, thin shot himself.

Yet, this will just fuel the anti-gun rhetoric.

“Assault rifle”. GMAFB

Kinda funny how the 2nd amendment works. The gun nutters only see the part about no law infringing upon their right to own firearms. They always miss the part about a well regulated militia. Since I served in a well regulated militia let me share how we handled firearms. Firearms (personal or gov't owned) had to be kept with an armorer, locked up and safe. No such thing as CCW on a military base. All the firearms were "registered." The militia was required to qualify with said firearms on a regular basis, take safety classes, etc, etc, etc.

So if our right to own firearms is based on being part of well regulated militia, why aren't we required to register the firearms? If our right to own firearms is based on being part of well regulated militia, why are fat arses that couldn't possibly pass a physical fitness test allowed to own firearms? Why is there no qualifying or licensing of firearms? The military tracks ammo, scopes, gun parts/accessories, but they wannabe citizen soldiers with their tactical gear and cry a river about the gov't tracking ammo and gun related purchases. Why isn't the "well regulated militia" required to safely store their firearms like the real military?

Why don't we enforce red flag laws? In the military when we found we had nutcase in our midst, we booted his arse out? Why isn't the "well regulated militia" booting people out by confiscating their guns and ammo?

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

So if our right to own firearms is based on being part of well regulated militia, why aren't we required to register the firearms?

We are.

If our right to own firearms is based on being part of well regulated militia, why are fat arses that couldn't possibly pass a physical fitness test allowed to own firearms?

You don't have to be skinny to know how to use and safely operate a weapon.

Why is there no qualifying or licensing of firearms?

There is.

The military tracks ammo, scopes, gun parts/accessories, but they wannabe citizen soldiers with their tactical gear and cry a river about the gov't tracking ammo and gun related purchases.

The government has to be accountable for those items. Tax payer dollars and what not.

Why isn't the "well regulated militia" required to safely store their firearms like the real military?

Because this is a free country and we should be grown up enough to regulate ourselves to that point.

Why don't we enforce red flag laws?

So government can use it to manipulate laws and for securing votes.

In the military when we found we had nutcase in our midst, we booted his arse out? Why isn't the "well regulated militia" booting people out by confiscating their guns and ammo?

That's the difference between government owned and privately owned. These laws don't apply privately.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” – Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… “To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.” – Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.” – William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

“f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

We are.

You don't have to be skinny to know how to use and safely operate a weapon.

There is.

The government has to be accountable for those items. Tax payer dollars and what not.

Because this is a free country and we should be grown up enough to regulate ourselves to that point.

So government can use it to manipulate laws and for securing votes.

That's the difference between government owned and privately owned. These laws don't apply privately.

1) No we are not required to register firearms.

NRA-ILA | Gun Registration | Gun Licensing

Less registration and licensing, less crime. There is no universal, national gun registry or federal license required to own a gun, and the vast majority of states don’t require registration or licensing. Yet, since 1991, when violent crime hit an all-time high, total violent crime and murder...

www.nraila.org

2) You do have to fit to part of a "well regulated militia," which was gives us "uninfringed" ownership of firearms.
3) There is no qualifying or licensing to own a firearm. Why would you claim there is?
4) Actually regulation is the role of the gov't by definition.
5) ????
6) But I thought we had guns to participate in the "well regulated militia." Well regulated militia's boot crazies the phuck out. In the US we refuse to take their firearms, but since they don't have a license nor register their firearms that can be challenging.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

The notion that the modern military fits the usage of the term militia in 2A isn't correct...there's plenty of correspondence from our founders that prove their intentions...

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” – Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… “To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.” – Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.” – William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

“f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788

Great quotes, but they miss my point (which you may not have been trying to address). Since our right to keep and bear arms is derived from being part of a well regulated militia, then why aren't firearms regulated like a well regulated militia regulates firearms?

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Great quotes, but they miss my point (which you may not have been trying to address). Since our right to keep and bear arms is derived from being part of a well regulated militia, then why aren't firearms regulated like a well regulated militia regulates firearms?

You're essentially using the military as an example of militia...the founders were using no such meaning...they actually opposed to a standing army by an overwhelming majority...the militia in their terms were ordinary American citizens to be called upon in a time of need...

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

You're essentially using the military as an example of militia...the founders were using no such meaning...they actually opposed to a standing army by an overwhelming majority...the militia in their terms were ordinary American citizens to be called upon in a time of need...

The founding fathers were divided on what the army should or shouldn't look like. Hamilton & Washington for example wanted large standing armies. Jefferson wanted a small standing army vs state Militias. In 1789 Congress established the US Military. Of course we actually had a standing/professional army prior to defeating the Brits and have maintained one ever since, so it seems the founding fathers weren't so overwhelming against standing armies.

They called it a "well regulated militia" in the 2nd Amendment. Wouldn't a well regulated militia require minimal standards, some sort of basic training, keeping track of who has what weapons and ammo available, etc? Ie a "well regulated militia" would be regulated. The "militia" the NRA has given us is completely unregulated and neither "well regulated" nor a militia.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

1) No we are not required to register firearms.

Hawaii requires registration of all firearms

Could you please make this coherent?

2) You do have to fit to part of a "well regulated militia," which was gives us "uninfringed" ownership of firearms.

3) There is no qualifying or licensing to own a firearm. Why would you claim there is?

Because there is.
If you’re going by what you’ll need to do to obtain a license to carry a gun in various states, the ones that require safety training or have related exam requirements are:

• California
• Connecticut
• Maryland
• Massachusetts
• Rhode Island
• Washington

4) Actually regulation is the role of the gov't by definition.

Sure but you do not have to be government to regulate.
Regulate - control or supervise (something, especially a company or business activity) by means of rules and regulations.
"the organization that regulates fishing in the region"

5) ????

It doesn't make sense to you that we as adults should be smart enough to know that weapons should be safely stowed?

6) But I thought we had guns to participate in the "well regulated militia." Well regulated militia's boot crazies the phuck out. In the US we refuse to take their firearms, but since they don't have a license nor register their firearms that can be challenging.

Nobody has to participate. Gun ownership can be used for many things. Hunting for pleasure. Hunting for food. Self defense. Peace of mind.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

The notion that the modern military fits the usage of the term militia in 2A isn't correct...there's plenty of correspondence from our founders that prove their intentions...

I never stated the professional military fits the usage of the term militia per the 2nd Amendment. I was speaking specifically to how a "well regulated militia" might regulate firearms (as opposed to what we have now, which is near no regulation). Clearly, the modern gun owner is not a "citizen soldier," so I'm unclear what gives them a right to keep and bear arms. But since that genie is already out of the bottle and we have a bunch of wannabe soldiers, how would a "well regulated militia" regulate firearms? Would they not have some minimum training? Fitness requirements? A system to track who has firearms? Require soldiers to store their firearms in a safe manner (ie safes, trigger locks, etc). Some sort of system to weed out the crazies?

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

The reason you have a 2a is so a corrupt government can’t kill anyone they want, like they did in China and Germany in the 20th century, so many other places. The gov that wants to ultimately ban guns is a gov who wants to be able to kill its people to control them.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Hawaii requires registration of all firearms

Could you please make this coherent?

Not sure what isn't coherent?

2) You do have to fit to part of a "well regulated militia," which was gives us "uninfringed" ownership of firearms.

Because there is.
If you’re going by what you’ll need to do to obtain a license to carry a gun in various states, the ones that require safety training or have related exam requirements are:

• California
• Connecticut
• Maryland
• Massachusetts
• Rhode Island
• Washington

But nothing at the Federal level and the vast majority of states require nothing and are requiring less by the day (see Florida & Kentucky)

Sure but you do not have to be government to regulate.
Regulate - control or supervise (something, especially a company or business activity) by means of rules and regulations.
"the organization that regulates fishing in the region"

The organization that regulates fishing in most areas is a gov't organization. Even when regulating organizations are not officially part of the gov't, they're usually referred to as "governing bodies, etc."

It doesn't make sense to you that we as adults should be smart enough to know that weapons should be safely stowed?

And you'd think that people wouldn't turn the streets in their personal racetracks and endanger their fellow citizens, but they do, and therefore we regulate roadways and hold people responsible for their actions. But start talking about laws requiring people to store firearms in a safe manner and somehow that means we're on the road to a totalitarian gov't.

Nobody has to participate. Gun ownership can be used for many things. Hunting for pleasure. Hunting for food. Self defense. Peace of mind.

But the second amendment doesn't say "In order to maintain peace of mind..."

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

If the US was a serious country, we’d allow gun training in school or as part of school.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Not sure what isn't coherent?

The quote that followed:
2) You do have to fit to part of a "well regulated militia," which was gives us "uninfringed" ownership of firearms.

But nothing at the Federal level and the vast majority of states require nothing and are requiring less by the day (see Florida & Kentucky)

Jesus Christ. It's not an argument. You made statements I proved the opposite. There is no need to now go back and add stipulations or conditions to your original statements.

The organization that regulates fishing in most areas is a gov't organization. Even when regulating organizations are officially part of the gov't, they're usually referred to as "governing bodies, etc."

It's an example in the definition. The discussion is not about fishing or its use in the definition.

And you'd think that people wouldn't turn the streets in their personal racetracks and endanger their fellow citizens, but they do, and therefore we regulate roadways and hold people responsible for their actions. But start talking about laws requiring people to store firearms in a safe manner and somehow that means we're on the road to a totalitarian gov't.

Clearly you have your own issues about things. That doesn't make anyone else wrong or right. You have the power to make a difference. Go out and vote. Make sure to vote with your feelings.

But the second amendment doesn't say "In order to maintain peace of mind..."

And the government doesn't get to decide if I have peace of mind either.