What is?

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

I think you misread the second hypothetical. I said the hostage taker did nothing overtly threatening, and the teacher decided to draw and attempt to fire.

Taking a hostage is a threatening act...

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

You're the one playing the "coulda, woulda, shoulda'"...he was acquitted of any wrong doing...

So, it’s not ok to play “coulda woulda shoulda”? I sure see a whole lot of it played in the abortion discussions.
So it’s just selective use based on narrative?

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

So, it’s not ok to play “coulda woulda shoulda”? I sure see a whole lot of it played in the abortion discussions.
So it’s just selective use based on narrative?

We ain't talking about abortion...it's a specific case with clearly defined facts...

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

We ain't talking about abortion...it's a specific case with clearly defined facts...

OK, so we play the game selectively based on the narrative.
In Kyle’s case we can’t say he should’ve stayed home, but in the case of a pregnant woman, we can say she shouldn’t have had ***.
Got it.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

I completely agree it was a stupid decision for him to go there...but he had as much right to be there as anybody there had...you keep try pin "support" for his choices leading up to him pulling the trigger on anybody who doesn't agree with you...the fact is (and once again I'll say just to be clear) a lot of stupid choices by Rittenhouse and those that he shot led up the tragic incident...had different choices been made by any one involved and maybe things would've been different...but that's not the case....choices were made and the facts lay where they are...

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

He retreated from the pistol, as he should have done under Wisconsin law. He also retreated under the threat of injury from Rosenbaum, as he should have under Wisconsin law.
Had he continued the retreat as he should have, he would not have had the opportunity or theto shoot anyone.
Hell, had he not crossed state lines and played cop at 17 y.o., he would not have been in a position that was not his place to be in.
The gun law error was dumb luck on his part, and I am confident it changed the course of the hearings and decision.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda, but it’s the absolute truth.

This has nothing to do with politics; it has to do with what is the right or wrong thing to do.

He couldn't retreat, he was being chased down. In addition to the other facts that the video reveal, they also reveal Kyle wasn't winning any track meets. He avoided confrontation until he felt that option was taken away from him.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

And it's not playing selectively. ..there's a huge difference in talking about a broad topic and individual cases...

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Taking a hostage is a threatening act...

That’s an assumption. Being a hostage does not by itself mean there is imminent threat to your life, which is what many states require for self defense.
It seems counterintuitive, but it’s law.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

I think you misread the second hypothetical. I said the hostage taker did nothing overtly threatening, and the teacher decided to draw and attempt to fire.

I'd say taking hostages is overtly threatening. I'm pretty sure there isn't a DA in the country that would prosecute a teacher for shooting a hostage taker and every DA in the country would prosecute the hostage taker in this case.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

He couldn't retreat, he was being chased down. In addition to the other facts that the video reveal, they also reveal Kyle wasn't winning any track meets. He avoided confrontation until he felt that option was taken away from him.

I guess it could be a discussion of how much should he have retreated or be required to retreat. If the situation began with the first gun pointed at him and then he was pursued until the last body fell, then it’s four stupid people doing stupid things, and half of them ending up dead.
If he retreated and then went back into the fray, then it is a different picture. Kind of like that girl who retreated into her house after getting threatened, then re-emerged with a knife and got shot by a cop.

If you retreat, do you then jump back into the fray, or stay retreated?

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

I'd say taking hostages is overtly threatening. I'm pretty sure there isn't a DA in the country that would prosecute a teacher for shooting a hostage taker and every DA in the country would prosecute the hostage taker in this case.

Yes, but there are two sides to those situations. Nothing would stop an attorney from filing suit against the teacher for using unreasonable force. They would then have to put together a strong “I felt imminent threat to my life” defense.
I’m sure you know it takes more than “I was scared”.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

OK, so we play the game selectively based on the narrative.
In Kyle’s case we can’t say he should’ve stayed home, but in the case of a pregnant woman, we can say she shouldn’t have had ***.
Got it.

Spokey has said Kyle should have stayed home.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

That’s an assumption. Being a hostage does not by itself mean there is imminent threat to your life, which is what many states require for self defense.
It seems counterintuitive, but it’s law.

Definition of HOSTAGE

a person held by one party in a conflict as a pledge pending the fulfillment of an agreement; a person taken by force to secure the taker's demands; one that is involuntarily controlled by an outside influence… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Yep the definition of hostage mean all hugs and unicorn farts...no threat at all

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

I guess it could be a discussion of how much should he have retreated or be required to retreat. If the situation began with the first gun pointed at him and then he was pursued until the last body fell, then it’s four stupid people doing stupid things, and half of them ending up dead.
If he retreated and then went back into the fray, then it is a different picture. Kind of like that girl who retreated into her house after getting threatened, then re-emerged with a knife and got shot by a cop.

If you retreat, do you then jump back into the fray, or stay retreated?

If somebody is threatening my life...why should I be required to retreat...I'm not the aggressor...

Not saying it isn't a good idea to find a way out of the situation...

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Yes, but there are two sides to those situations. Nothing would stop an attorney from filing suit against the teacher for using unreasonable force. They would then have to put together a strong “I felt imminent threat to my life” defense.
I’m sure you know it takes more than “I was scared”.

I'm pretty sure taking hostages is more than enough....