i have 2 12's of em and they r decent for the price. pretty good for a starter system cuz they hit like hell, look cool, but have little sound quality. now that im sick of how they sound im gonna get some really nice subs, but for the time i had them they werent bad. overall, either save up for some real good **** or buy cheap stuff and learn as u go. i doubt anyone would stay satisfied with these subs or most subs in this price range for long. i feel the same way about their amps, and i've owned one of those too.