Staging and Imaging?

[Fi-brations 10+ year member]

Just installed my HAT C1s and L6v1s running active off of the xtant 4180c and eclipse cd7000

The tweets are in spheres curtousy of @ @keep_hope_alive and the mids are in my doors in the factory location, 2003 ford explorer.
I've been messing around with the xovers, and i like it a lot right now, i believe my mids are crossed at either 2.5khz of 3.15khz on a 12db/octave slope and my tweeters are crossed at 4khz on a 12db/octave slope (honestly though I have some trouble hearing the difference when going from 3.15khz-4khz-5khz) Perhaps someone can shed some light on that, but do these sound relatively normal?

It all sounds pretty amazing, best speakers I have ever heard personally, but my experience is very limited. I have fooled around with t/a, but just adjusting my ear, no actual measurements. I can center the voice and level the sides evenly, but I don't really have an obvious grasps of any other instrumentalists other than the singer, im gonna try some better music, but I would think some of the music i listen to like metal, indie, and rock would have the necessary elements to aid in imaging.

Is creating imaging further than just vocals going to take adjusting speaker location or what should I do?

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[cablguy184 10+ year member]

I've been messing around with the xovers, and i like it a lot right now, i believe my mids are crossed at either 2.5khz of 3.15khz on a 12db/octave slope and my tweeters are crossed at 4khz on a 12db/octave slope (honestly though I have some trouble hearing the difference when going from 3.15khz-4khz-5khz) Perhaps someone can shed some light on that, but do these sound relatively normal?

Is this a 2 way or 3 way active component set ??

 

[Dirtrider4eva 10+ year member]

get an RTA setup. can start one up for under $150. then you can take accurate measurements

 

[Fi-brations 10+ year member]

Is this a 2 way or 3 way active component set ??

2 way, the l6s and c1s on my xtant 4 channel

Eventually I will bridge the 4180c to the mods and use the 2100b for the highs

 

[Fi-brations 10+ year member]

get an RTA setup. can start one up for under $150. then you can take accurate measurements

I know a lot of ppl use them, but what exactly do I use them for? What do I do with the information they provide me? I'll do my own research later if u don't want to type it out //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[cablguy184 10+ year member]

get an RTA setup. can start one up for under $150. then you can take accurate measurements

Doesn't seem like it would do any good at this point ...

2 way, the l6s and c1s on my xtant 4 channelEventually I will bridge the 4180c to the mods and use the 2100b for the highs

sounds like your crossover points set up for a 3 way component setup ... Sounds to me like you are missing alot of needed frequiencies ...

Your tweets are crossed over way to high and you should be running your 6.5" drivers full range cutting the bottom end around 40 to 70 htz ...

just my suggestion here ...

 

[myjaja 10+ year member]

On my active setup with cdt components, I have my mids at 5khz with a 18db/octave slope and tweeters at 4khz with a 24db/octave slope. That sounded best to me with my speakers. I can hear pretty much all the instrumentalists and vocal. You should try highering your mids to like 4khz-5khz.

 

[Dirtrider4eva 10+ year member]

I know a lot of ppl use them, but what exactly do I use them for? What do I do with the information they provide me? I'll do my own research later if u don't want to type it out //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

allows you to see your response graph about your peaks and troughs. and can help you tune to get a flatter response

 

[Fi-brations 10+ year member]

Ya adjusting the xovers seem to help some, ill have to keep fooling with them. How do you get rid of your speakers being "visible", when the sound seems to be coming directly from them, my tweeters are slightly visible, but that may just be my imagination. I would think fooling around with the T/A some more would help right?

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

yep, fooling with T/A will help. T/A shouldn't make a difference on the tweeters - the wavelengths are too small, attenuating the driver tweeter will help the center imaging.

for T/A settings, start with the path length difference of each speaker. the manual for the HU should give an example. then tweak from there.

 

[okiedokie 10+ year member]

I just got a pair of the clarus mids

It seems that the top end of the driver has a laid back sound more of.

1-you can run them full range & lower your tweeter.

2- they to get a processor.

I know lots of people love these drivers, but I'm having a hard time liking there sound.

They clip really easy, I'm sure if they are made well in the factory, but the glue o the surround came loose.

They do have amazing midbass.

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

[quote name='Fi-brations']Just installed my HAT C1s and L6v1s running active off of the xtant 4180c and eclipse cd7000

The tweets are in spheres curtousy of @ @keep_hope_alive and the mids are in my doors in the factory location, 2003 ford explorer.
I've been messing around with the xovers, and i like it a lot right now, i believe my mids are crossed at either 2.5khz of 3.15khz on a 12db/octave slope and my tweeters are crossed at 4khz on a 12db/octave slope (honestly though I have some trouble hearing the difference when going from 3.15khz-4khz-5khz) Perhaps someone can shed some light on that, but do these sound relatively normal?

It all sounds pretty amazing, best speakers I have ever heard personally, but my experience is very limited. I have fooled around with t/a, but just adjusting my ear, no actual measurements. I can center the voice and level the sides evenly, but I don't really have an obvious grasps of any other instrumentalists other than the singer, im gonna try some better music, but I would think some of the music i listen to like metal, indie, and rock would have the necessary elements to aid in imaging.

Is creating imaging further than just vocals going to take adjusting speaker location or what should I do?[/QUOTE]

I would set your mid/tweeter crossovers to the same frequency, and I suggest 3.15 kHz first. For simplicity I would also keep the slopes the same. You're more likely to get the best clarity to vocals if you keep the slopes consistent. You can check this by listening to talk radio or a recording of someone speaking at a normal volume. Use a 24 dB slope on your subwoofer LPF and the HPF of your midrange. Listen to some music that you're really familiar with, but something that's not too intricate. Don't put on Avenged Sevenfold if you have Adele, for example. You could also download some reference music, such as the first Focal JM Labs disc, which has known accurate and dynamic recordings. This way you know for sure the vocalist is supposed to sound centered on the stage, whereas with mainstream recordings you can only assume the vocals are centered.

Typically in rock music you're going to get a guitar to sound to the right of the vocalist, a second guitar is usually going to sound left of the vocalist, and drums are behind the rest of the band. Bass guitar will be less consistent as many of the notes are at frequencies our ears are not good at locating. If you can pick out each member of a 4 piece band you're in good shape. After that you can focus on taming an in-your-face guitar, fine-tuning the midbass presence by improving your installation, and on and on. A basic equalizer has no chance of getting you real depth to the sound stage, even with time alignment and level matching. You'll have peaks and nulls to the sound that even 31 bands of graphic eq on each speaker can't smooth.

 

[Fi-brations 10+ year member]

Update: I got my replacement clarus tweeter in, and fooled around with t/a. Omg...it's so perfect, voice sounds like its coming directly from the HU or just above it. I can easily pick out instruments from others and speaker locations have disappeared. It will be perfect once I put in the second xtant amp and have more power to the mids. Everything is crystal clear, just need some midbass, 40-50w isn't cutting it right now.

 

[cablguy184 10+ year member]

I should be headed up towards Memphis in a few months ... I sure would like to meet up for demos.

 

[Ge_off_me 5,000+ posts]

Update: I got my replacement clarus tweeter in, and fooled around with t/a. Omg...it's so perfect, voice sounds like its coming directly from the HU or just above it. I can easily pick out instruments from others and speaker locations have disappeared. It will be perfect once I put in the second xtant amp and have more power to the mids. Everything is crystal clear, just need some midbass, 40-50w isn't cutting it right now.

You should go to Freezefest, would love to hear everything!