political debate..... fascism WTF?

[mossberg385t 10+ year member]

-Nathan Price everyone hated on Bush, but Obama has accrued 3x more debt than Bush did in his 8 years and he has been in office less than 6 months....ya that is definitely "A CHANGE"! hope all u democrats are happy now!

-Justin Shaffer at 11:03pm July 1

How did you think that he was going to introduce a stimulus bill that was going to involve no spending of money and work immediately?

No President is going to change the country in 150 days. Give him half a term and see where we're at...then judge his Presidency.

C'mon Pricey, you oughta know better than to judge a politician five months after he takes office. Change takes time...that's why Presidents serve terms of four years...not of four months.

-Nathan Price at 11:06pm July 1

ya he cant change it in 150 days for the better yet..and ya it will take time..but he can get a whole lot worse..at this rate the economy will collapse..who knows maybe we can be owned by a different country ha i bet wed all enjoy that

-Justin Shaffer at 11:10pm July 1

We all knew it was going to get worse before it got better. No matter who won the Presidency, it was going to take a shitload of money that we don't have to pick the economy up out of this gutter.

We don't know how Obama's economy stimulus is going to work...because it's simply too soon to tell.

Give it two years, mate. Two years before we can make a sound judgment of how Obama's done his job so far.

-Hannah Miller at 11:11pm July 1

...in 2 years we'll be closer to being a socialist country than any of the dumb bell american voters ever imagined.

just sayin. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

-Justin Shaffer at 11:13pm July 1

You've been watching too much Fox News, Hannah.

-Hannah Miller at 11:14pm July 1

i'm not saying mccain woulda been an excellent president.

but obama is no president.

welcome to dictatorship america!

GM is only one of the many companies the govt will take over.

obama's not reversing the economy.

he's playing it.

using it to his advantage so that people who are claiming bankruptcy are forced to turn to the govt for help. or at least have no other choice.

again. just sayin. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

-That's what a lot of people said about FDR when he took office in 1933.

And look at how many of his "socialist" programs are still helping people today.

Just saying.

If the government hadn't taken action to save CitiBank and GM and the other companies, then they would have gone under. Our already unstable economy could not have survived a massive employer like GM going under. It just couldn't have.

-Hannah Miller at 11:25pm July 1

hmm. maybe. but someone didnt do all his research. FDR never held the same socialist values that obama does.

and about the govt being so helpful... the same someone who fails at research also hasn't brushed up on his constitution. the government has no right to take over companies. i dunno bout you, but i read the washington times about the GM issue... you know, that liberal newspaper, and they mentioned that GM really had no say in handing over the company. the government just... 'stepped in'. i'll use a soft term like that for ya. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

and wasnt russia oppressed with socialist govt for a long time... and are still recovering? and they look at america and say 'ruh roh... deja vu!'

dont believe me?

check it.

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459-0/

i havent watched too much fox news, dude. i just dont accept the baby mush the media enjoys feeding hapless idiots of america. because... well. i'm not a hapless idiot. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

-Justin Shaffer at 11:41pm July 1

http://www.americandaily.com/article/426

This article was the basis of my claim of how many of FDR's actions COULD be construed as "socialistic", and yet, despite what the author of this article believes, these "socialist" ideals ultimately benefited the country as a whole.

Also, take Teddy Roosevelt, the most prolific trust-buster in American history. In 1908, people thought that ol' Teddy was plotting to take over the country's largest companies. And yet the Anti-Trust laws that he set in place are still in effect today.

And then Taft came in after Roosevelt and took up right where Teddy left off. In fact, Taft busted MORE trusts and monopolies than Roosevelt did, even though he isn't as famous for it.

The fact is that every time a progressive president comes into office, there will always be a group of naysayers screaming "SOCIALIST!" And history has shown that these presidents have been among the most effective in history.

Would you rather have GM fallen under, and those

-Justin Shaffer at 11:44pm July 1

thousands of workers lost their jobs?

Every Conservative out there assumes that the government's actions in stepping in to save GM had unpure intentions, when there is no evidence to suggest it.

And these are the same people who can find a reasonable explanation for Halliburton's involvement in the War in Iraq, and the fact that our VICE PRESIDENT was the CEO of the company.

I mean, c'mon.

-Hannah Miller at 11:51pm July 1

for someone so set on progressiveness, you sure look into the past for a lot of your evidence.

trust me, dude, i know about them. i told you i'm not a hapless idiot. you prolly werent listening. and i'm no naysayer downing a progressive president. reagan was a progressive president. and he's my favorite. abraham lincoln was a progressive president. another very good one. no one is dissing progressiveness. thats just your assumption. what i am 'naysaying' is socialism. and while those progressive presidents who you named... good job naming them, someone definitely studied his presidents... harbored some socialist views, i would never consider them equal to hitler.

obama's done a very good job covering his tracks. so did hitler, you see. he was also a very good speaker. he moved people to follow him even tho he was a wicked, evil man. how? because he chose his words carefully and crafted them into sweet nothings so that the people would be won over. and BAM. terror hit.

-Hannah Miller at 11:55pm July 1

obama said a lot about 'change'... and 'hope'... but he never specified what we're hoping for... what will change. that way... no one can come back to him and say 'but you said this...' because really. he hasnt said anything.

he has worked this country up into a frenzy for him. and he's using it to his advantage.

no one saw the holocaust coming.

no one saw the taking over of germany coming.

no one saw it.

hitler was just a little austrian man who knew how to work the public speaking.

...

the only difference... is obama's skin color.

i'm not saying a second holocaust will come.

i'm just saying... like most americans, you are judging a book by it's cover.

bad move.

very bad move.

so would i prefer GM to go under?

besides the fact their cars sucked...

yes.

because GM is only the first.

brackets for march madness... are considered unfair, and the obama administration is considering electing a 'sports tsar'.

say what?!

arent there less idiotic things to decide on?

-Hannah Miller at 11:59pm July 1

not to the obama administration...why?

because its all about control.

which is directly against the US constitution.

which i'm sure you still havent read.

like most americans.

so most people won't notice it.

sooo, obama will get away with it.

but those of us who have read it will notice.

i think its a big enough hint if countries who have suffered socialist govts before and know what it is like are looking at america and LAUGHING.

one of obama's people went to china to talk about trade and economy.

he assured them that the american economy is an economy worth investing in.

the chinese council laughed in his face.

because they see what is happening.

oh and you know all those friends obama is making? you know, those leaders of terrorist countries?

psh, americans dont know about that either.

what a stupid country.

-Nathanial Berrier at 11:59pm July 1

you cant compare socialism to hitlers facist government. im pretty sure obama isnt evil either. you cant throw everyone who is good with people into the bad bucket cause hitler was either. im pretty well surprised noone has thrown out the word ****** yet. and lemme guess youll want "i can see russia from my house" in 2012. the lady named her son ... Read Moretrack because she likes the sport and thats the season it was. COME ON. but back to bullshit. you cant run head first into a war on WMDs that dont exist and not have an exit stratagy. you have to pay for that war. its not free and its not worth the oil. obama just got stuck cleaning up the shithole. and to the GM bs, if GM or any other automaker fails, that could mean the end of the country. they are the largest job suppliers for the US. check out MSNBC and CNN or your local news more often. and hey, hes being tough on smokers too, i know its not abortion but its a start, PS voting on religious view is stupid. thats what got this country

-Hannah Miller at 12:00am July 2

the perfect level of stupidity... for obama to do his work.

so ask me again if i would prefer GM to go under.

in the long run... YES.

-Nathanial Berrier at 12:00am July 2

in this mess, a bunch of idiots voting on gay marriage and abortion statuses that arent really a big concern right now. you also cant ***** about the economy either because its not affecting this area much at all. sure food went up a few cents but gas came down and there are plenty of jobs.

-Nathanial Berrier at 12:02am July 2

why the **** would you want GM to go under? and dont give me the more reliable bullshit because you see more older american cars than any other around, esp gm, the only thing they lagged in was gas mileage but thats not even a competition right now, my $15k pontiac gets 42 per gallon whill the 17k yaris gets 35 on a good day

Click to read more...

 

[mossberg385t 10+ year member]

-Nathanial Berrier at 12:06am July 2

not to mention buying american helps out your community. i would agree that watching all channels a fair bit is the best way to get both sides but FOX gets worse and worse at time goes on O'Reilly and Hannity are **** near bigots. to be honest i could have lived with mcain had he chosen a different running mate as well. you guys are a bunch of sore losers, you can ***** when he stars a full on war with a couple countrys for made up reasons and hidden agendas

-Nathanial Berrier at 12:07am July 2

The big three is a big part of politics right now because they are the economys backbone. if you cant keep up outside of foxes discussion bubble i suggest you retire anyway

-Hannah Miller at 12:10am July 2

well, since you obviously can't read... i'll repeat it.

i dont watch fox news.

and i dont worship sarah palin.

i read articles that arent the typical mush of overly liberal and overly conservative news sources.

why? because i'm independent. i'm not republican. i'm not democrat.

so you can sit there and whine about my being close minded.

i'm just someone offering common sense in a country that willingly believes everything the media tells it.

-Justin Shaffer at 12:10am July 2

Of course I use the past to support my claims because, as I'm sure you've heard, history has a funny way of repeating itself, in both good and bad ways.

It's not surprising that Reagan's your favorite president. But the only thing he progressed was the "trickle-down" bullshit that Bush used to help his assault on the nation's economy the last eight years.

Lincoln's another favorite of yours, eh? He was a good one, as the history text book will tell you. Alas, he wasn't exactly the most Constitution-abiding President himself, mind you. In fact, it could be said that his suspension of habeas corpus was perhaps the most "Hiterish" act ever committed by an American president, apart from the Patriot Act under which we have been living since 2001.

Conservatives' gripping fear of "socialism" is rather disturbing at times, I must admit. I wonder, if McCain had been in office when the government HAD to intervene in GM's business in order to save it, if the same cries of "SOCIALIST!" would be heard?

-Hannah Miller at 12:16am July 2

i'm sure they would still be heard. you dont read too well either. i said mccain would not be the best president either. both choices were epic fail for presidency. they both offered horrible plans and promises... obama's cuz they were empty and mccain's cuz they wouldnt get us anywhere.

and trust me, i know about lincoln as well. you seem to think... Read More i'm pure stupidity just cuz i dont like obama. like most liberals. see. you rail against conservatives, and yet you as a liberal do the same exact thing.

lucky me, i'm only concerned with the constitution and where it says the people, not the govt, is to vote, decide, and basically 'rule' the states. the founding fathers had a good idea goin back then. too bad obama... or mccain... were poor choices in that department.

now finally... goodnight.

-Justin Shaffer at 12:18am July 2

Somehow I doubt it.

What tracks exactly has Obama covered? After all, I'm just a hapless idiot bleeding heart liberal. Please, enlighten me.

Comparing Obama to Hitler is bewildering to me, even more so because you are not the only person who has attempted to do so.

Firstly, Obama's wild popularity and manner of intelligent speech are more reminiscent of FDR than they are of Hitler. I have a feeling that you know this, if you are as historically educated as you claim, but I feel the need to point it out regardless.

Secondly, and as Nate already said, socialism is not the same as fascism. At all. But I also think that you know this, as well.

Therefore, I cannot see on which you are basing your comparison of Hitler and Obama. It just doesn't work. Period.

And what do you mean that Obama never specified what he supplied "change" and "hope" from? It was quite simple: he provided change from the last eight years of Bush and Cheney destroying this country through war and horrible economic

-Justin Shaffer at 12:25am July 2

policies. He made plenty of campaign promises, many of which he has already acted upon.

For example? Simple: He promised to pass a massive economic stimulus package shortly after he got into office. Done.

He promised to shut down Guantanamo Bay. In the process of being done.

He promised to lift the ban on stem cell research. Done.

He promised to move troops from Iraq to Afghanistan in a span of about a year. Well under way.

He promised to review "don't ask, don't tell" in the armed forces. In the process of being done.

President Obama promised this country a lot when he got into office, and he has shown that he is intent on acting on his word. He seems to want to begin working on health care soon, and education is still a looming object in his near future.

So that entire claim of Obama being unclear in his intentions as President is absolutely false. Period.

If GM went under, my friend, it would have been a deathblow to the economy. There's no getting around that fact. It's

-Justin Shaffer at 12:33am July 2

our largest automaker. If it goes down, our economy goes down with it.

And the issue at hand isn't March Madness...it's the BCS system of college football, an issue that has been debated by Congress since midway through the Bush administration. The Obama administration had nothing to do with the BCS until it picked up where the former administration left off. Another invalid argument. Perhaps YOU should have done your research on that one, friend.

As far as the economy goes, as I said back at the TOP of this discussion, it's too soon to tell how Obama's stimulus actions will affect our economy over the long run. Give it two years. TWO YEARS, then judge.

And last, but certainly not least, what the hell is wrong with holding peaceful talks with the leaders of "terrorist states" (none of which, not surprisingly, have taken part in any terrorist acts against the US)? Just about the only high point of Jimmy Carter's presidency were the Camp David Accords, which temporarily ended violence

-Justin Shaffer at 12:34am July 2

in the Middle East that had existed for THOUSANDS of years. I'm sure you'll call me a hippy for this, but maybe being less aggressive towards the Arab world might make us fewer enemies within it, eh?

 

[mossberg385t 10+ year member]

curious what people think..... copy and pasted directly from facebook status conversation.

 

[mossberg385t 10+ year member]

ttt

 

[konechiwa 10+ year member]

we don't give a shit.

 

[perfecxionX 10+ year member]

Did you know that only about one third of Americans can name the three branches of government? I didn't read that whole discussion but from what i did read it sounded like a convo between typical Americans with a very elementary understanding of politics. Wasn't worth continuing IMO.

 

[mossberg385t 10+ year member]

Did you know that only about one third of Americans can name the three branches of government? I didn't read that whole discussion but from what i did read it sounded like a convo between typical Americans with a very elementary understanding of politics. Wasn't worth continuing IMO.

starts that way... with those typical americans but gets more educated as my friend and my brother join

 

[galacticmonkey 5,000+ posts]

Obama is an idiot, we already know that. Nobody is going to reat that shit. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[perfecxionX 10+ year member]

starts that way... with those typical americans but gets more educated as my friend and my brother join

you should consider shortening the post then (substantially). how many people at this forum would actually read a three page post anyways?

 

[mossberg385t 10+ year member]

you should consider shortening the post then (substantially). how many people at this forum would actually read a three page post anyways?

very good point... will do

 

[John3000 10+ year member]

Obama is an idiot, we already know that. Nobody is going to reat that shit. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

QFT.

 

[jmanpc 5,000+ posts]

I read it all, and both sides of the argument are pretty weak.

 

[nismos14 5,000+ posts]

cliff?

 

[zthumper 10+ year member]

Holy reading batman...i read for 5 min then gave up sorry

 

[thaster 10+ year member]

Did you know that only about one third of Americans can name the three branches of government? I didn't read that whole discussion but from what i did read it sounded like a convo between typical Americans with a very elementary understanding of politics. Wasn't worth continuing IMO.

that's sad.....anyway there's no US government. only world government. have and will always be. Think about it, our government is more influenced and more influential towards other nations than from the people of the united states.