Not a fair bailout for all?

[dcole18 5,000+ posts]

Hopefully you don't lose them like tracking numbers.

touche...

maybe i should print them out now?

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

in my next econ class when we discuss the bailouts i think im just gonna print out Neal and Flip's poasts and read them out loud to the class...

Austrian Economics is not taught at MTSU.

Actually let me take that back.

History of Economic Thought...I think it is a 7000 level class.

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

Hopefully you don't lose them like tracking numbers.

quite possibly the best post in this thread //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[dcole18 5,000+ posts]

Austrian Economics is not taught at MTSU.

im no longer enrolled at mtsu //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[Lugnutz 10+ year member]

Austrian Economics is not taught at MTSU.
Actually let me take that back.

History of Economic Thought...I think it is a 7000 level class.

Is business ethics taught there?

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

Unless we have the rough equivalent of the Great Depression, something long and deep, people won't change. I was hoping the gas prices would stay high long enough to create change, but like I thought...the bottom fell out and "energy effeciency" goes to hell.

Agreed it will take something drastic that forces us and our expectations of our entitlements to change. I don't think government intervention at this point is going to do shit for us.

Gotta be a silver lining in this cloud somewhere...

 

[dcole18 5,000+ posts]

Is business ethics taught there?

why of course tee...

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Is business ethics taught there?

No. It is supposed to be intergrated into every business class. In most finance classes, the "moral high ground" is obeying the "normal" intent of the law.

 

[dcole18 5,000+ posts]

meh, shows what i know...

 

[bumpweLL.nYc 10+ year member]

Yes, the argument is similar.
Bush has to commit to attacking Iraq, because terrorist activity may increase if he doesn't. Once he's committed, he can't change the plan because of the circumstances.

yes 7 years later and we are more vulnerable and targeted than ever. The terrorists ARE WINNING

The government doesnt think at ALL. Small example, the MTA (bus, bridge and subways) has huge budget problems. They claim to lose millions per year to fare jumpers, there are always conductors/drivers who are beat/shashed/shot and will collect disability, and there is a terror threat. So why arent there any officers aboard to save the millions and protect the workers? After 01 I thought the silver lining would be a huge boost in security, I should look up the numbers but I havent seen much.

 

[sexiewasd 10+ year member]

Unless we have the rough equivalent of the Great Depression, something long and deep, people won't change. I was hoping the gas prices would stay high long enough to create change, but like I thought...the bottom fell out and "energy efficiency" goes to hell.

X2 we had a good chance to force change with that, it's a shame they dropped so much so fast. People were selling SUV's for near nothing and paying out the @** for IL4's.

Money is just the carrot in front that makes us work, with too many carrots you spend all day eating your carrots (spending money), thats what America is doing, spending money, mean while India and China are booming, mostly because we are so willing to spend our money on their products.

Innovation is the only thing that can save us from an epic fail. Take the PC gaming industry for instance, Their is panic from the loss of sales to consoles, one company made an innovation VALVe with the Steam platform. They are now one of the fastest growing companies in the industry, meanwhile EA Games is loosing ground because their answer to declining PC Games sales was to spend money buying more small development studios, shifting resources to console games, and copying VALVe's innovation. EA is doing quite well, but not with PC games, they have their hits simply because they own nearly everything, but it's their growth in console games that keeps them from failing.

Now apply this to America as a whole, we either need to dominate with a new innovation or move to a new market (alternative energy).

 

[nosaj070 10+ year member]

Truthfully there are many issues plaguing this country currently, and any person can easily blame it on any scapegoat they would like. I for one believe that at least a portion of the financial bailout was necessary. Granted I am in the industry but it is very obvious to me how the bankruptcy/end of many financial industries would affect nearly everyone in the country, not to mention the rest of the world. Bailing out these greedy suckers (yes I work with many of them, simply started in the industry too late to be one of them) was the right thing to do.

Basically I was taught throughout my upbringing that due to the FDIC and similar institutions created to thwart a second great depression, a second was never going to happen. We somehow disproved that theory and blatantly illustrated that we can still mess it up. Could you imagine bank runs on most large banks in the year 2008? Just think what that would have caused now after you think about the issues that arose during the depression.

Yes it sucks, and everyday you hear about some other corrupt SOB (IE Madoff) that ruined peoples lives. And it seems that more americans are affected by the Big 3, but I don't think thats the case. Granted the whole US industry would be in trouble, but that is the entire rational for the creation of Chapter 11, to aid companies in trouble. EVERYONE has investments of some kind with a bank in the US or abroad and for those to be compromised would wreak havoc in the markets. Another huge reason for the financial bailouts is the much higher chance of turning a profit, or at least breaking even on the investment. Banks will turn around in the future, it cannot stay this bad forever. The US auto industry however has the potential to never turn around, then where did that 17 billion go?

I don't even want to get into why this occurred, but long story short it is due to cyclical reasons, greedy individuals, and simply people getting in over their heads. Housing prices still have a ways to fall, and until our markets hit equilibrium it is going to be ugly. The constant bailouts will simply lengthen the turn around, but ideally will limit the downside.

I'm somewhat tired of typing, I need to get to bed. But basically no one, not even the smartest people in the world can begin to grasp what is going on currently, and it will take a few years to finally understand what is truly happening. It is a tough time for everyone and it is one of the worst recessions in relatively recent history, and has the potential to turn into a depression.

I rambled a lot. Long story short he financial markets affect many more people than any single other industry.

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

Truthfully there are many issues plaguing this country currently, and any person can easily blame it on any scapegoat they would like. I for one believe that at least a portion of the financial bailout was necessary. Granted I am in the industry but it is very obvious to me how the bankruptcy/end of many financial industries would affect nearly everyone in the country, not to mention the rest of the world. Bailing out these greedy suckers (yes I work with many of them, simply started in the industry too late to be one of them) was the right thing to do.
Basically I was taught throughout my upbringing that due to the FDIC and similar institutions created to thwart a second great depression, a second was never going to happen. We somehow disproved that theory and blatantly illustrated that we can still mess it up. Could you imagine bank runs on most large banks in the year 2008? Just think what that would have caused now after you think about the issues that arose during the depression.

Yes it sucks, and everyday you hear about some other corrupt SOB (IE Madoff) that ruined peoples lives. And it seems that more americans are affected by the Big 3, but I don't think thats the case. Granted the whole US industry would be in trouble, but that is the entire rational for the creation of Chapter 11, to aid companies in trouble. EVERYONE has investments of some kind with a bank in the US or abroad and for those to be compromised would wreak havoc in the markets. Another huge reason for the financial bailouts is the much higher chance of turning a profit, or at least breaking even on the investment. Banks will turn around in the future, it cannot stay this bad forever. The US auto industry however has the potential to never turn around, then where did that 17 billion go?

I don't even want to get into why this occurred, but long story short it is due to cyclical reasons, greedy individuals, and simply people getting in over their heads. Housing prices still have a ways to fall, and until our markets hit equilibrium it is going to be ugly. The constant bailouts will simply lengthen the turn around, but ideally will limit the downside.

I'm somewhat tired of typing, I need to get to bed. But basically no one, not even the smartest people in the world can begin to grasp what is going on currently, and it will take a few years to finally understand what is truly happening. It is a tough time for everyone and it is one of the worst recessions in relatively recent history, and has the potential to turn into a depression.

I rambled a lot. Long story short he financial markets affect many more people than any single other industry.

Financial institutions could have gone through bankruptcy and had their "assets" sold for pennies on the dollar to the highest bidder. This would have given the opportunity for certain financial institutions to actually make gains via those that failed...natural course of business. Propping markets/institutions/etc up at a fabricated level will only lead to failure later.

We can take our medicine now or stretch it out, the **** is coming either way.

 

[bones22 5,000+ posts]

i remember reading something about this a few days ago.

what did they expect? that the banks would use the money for what it was meant for.

hell no

thats vacations for CEO's and upper management for the holidays

 

[nosaj070 10+ year member]

Financial institutions could have gone through bankruptcy and had their "assets" sold for pennies on the dollar to the highest bidder. This would have given the opportunity for certain financial institutions to actually make gains via those that failed...natural course of business. Propping markets/institutions/etc up at a fabricated level will only lead to failure later.
We can take our medicine now or stretch it out, the **** is coming either way.

That is very true. The problem with banks going bankrupt is the ripple effect it has. It obviously would be the best solution to the problem at hand. For example just imagine what would happen to small businesses if they still couldn't obtain credit (although many cannot). Many of them rely on seasonal loans to finance their increased holiday inventory, without those loans they cannot survive. Granted many of them still did not get the financing they needed (I'm not positive) but I do know that in some secure instances the markets opened up a bit.

To address the other issue with buying "assets" for pennies on the dollar is that many of those assets still aren't worth crap, not even pennies. Still institutions are not lending money, but the strong ones are still acquiring potentially profitable investments. JP Morgan Chase is an excellent example, they have a solid (relatively) balance sheet and are demanding to be the lead on most large M&A deals happening today. The strongest are still leading the pack, the bailout is simply protecting the people and the foreign markets.

To avoid the argument AIG is a freaking mess. Anyone in their position who increases dividends alongside a strategy to raise capital is so far out of focus they cannot even be discussed. That organization enrages me beyond belief, the problem once again is that them failing would have repercussions for people that don't even know what AIG does.