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Message: <blockquote data-quote="audiolife" data-source="post: 1011274" data-attributes="member: 541383">no seperation happens on two occations both have no axis when is would that be? its not that hard no sound or when the projected image is omni fin direction due to frequency or do you believe 200 hz coming from a 12 is the same as a 6 or an 8?(hehe if this were true then all of your mids and highs would be really easy to pick out and wouldnt sound full all the way around in a room or car because the only otherway to correct this is by time and thats only good for ONE location) its alll right there i like it how when the tables get f'in flipped from me getting "OWNED" to this. imaging is a percieved soundstage if what you are saying is true beaming effects mean nothing a speakers dispersion means nothing. a speakers dispersion is what we hear the shape of that dispersion at a givin frequency will give us the "location" believe it or not (thats why i broke it down for you into the creek ocean analogy) yes speakers of the same size and different design can "disperse" differently giving it slightly better off axis response but thats controled by its response (gets warmer slightly louder in a lower frequency alot of times they build crossovers and eq curcuits into the xover to do this or its simple PHASE shifts built into the crossover point) this is still all controled by the speakers dispersion as to location if it disperses nothing we in turn hear nothing. the shape of which it disperses indeed gives away its location. thats why smaller speakers take advantage of the beaming effect over their larger counter parts. now you can say or argue the size of the listening area matters (it does) but then again you have to remember a car/truck/suv are only SO big to begin with. the mono(summed left and right) 8 in this situation would be wider at this frequency than the 12 you were talking about. i also said to have the 6.5.s come in on the (dipping into the frequencies the mono midbass would be playing) so at higher more directional frequencies the stereo pair PULLS the signal wider than what the 8 is putting out. my 5 1/4's sound ALOT bigger than the 3 way set i had in my truck due to the beaming effect (its not louder its bigger) it makes a big difference in how things are picked out. when you go with larger speakers in general you are leaning to giving away a speakers location for (imo extreme others might not think so) tonality. that is the problem if you dig farther into the subject you will see people complain about loosing "openess" and giving up sonically the speakers locations (we hear where its coming from) by not taking into consideration of what beaming does. in my set up i gained about 10 inches at least in stage heighth with a "uniform sound" why? its all directivity the 5.25 is more omni directional at low frequencies (remember this is what keeps it big as it does get smaller the less omni directional it becomes(aka higher frequencies) with absolute lining between the tweeter/mid it creates a funnel on eitherside of my vehicle larger than the listening feild. its much bigger sounding than the 6.5-4-tweet set up i had before..does it get as loud? no. the only problem i see that you could have in understanding this is putting it together across all frequencies that its playing but thats where placement starts playing a more important roll with LESS directional frequencies.as to you "let us know when mid bass becomes directional" question it was answered a long time ago it DEPENDS ON WHAT ITS COMING FROM. lowest frequency that i have read that it is becoming directional is 160 hz*. starting to get directional mind you the speaker is playing at  higher frequencies too so instead of being totally round its dispersion its becoming pear shapped, when its absolute directional the speaker wont project the higher frequency far from around its radious, thus its easily picked out. some people that say 100 and 70 the reason behind that is simple resonance of the environment in one of 3 situations. 1 it creates a standing wave (pretty hard to do in a car intereior its not a box). 2 vibration around the speaker at its location. 3 you are right by 1 of the speakers and the other is way on the otherside of the listening environment thus u feel one more than the other (example and 8 mounted in the door by your left leg -lets say 6 to 8" from it lol and 3 and a half feet away from the other in the other door- that should be obvious. thing that  is or should be obvious by now though that the speaker size does matter lol. whats omni directional for a sub makes it "mono able" not until we get up to a few hundred hz for other speakers. beaming effect is also why people want to take small tweeters and try to cross them over at 1200 hz or so. it would lose alot of its directionalness and sound more open and real. in a dead environment med volume i know i cant directly pick up left or right in musical passages until at least 200hz but lets say it was a 12 or bigger i would say it would be directional listen to a simple 2 6.5 way speaker set that is reasonably  flat down to 30 hz you would get a different answer. also mind you when i said it starts getting "pear shaped" it also depends where you are in that pear shape to start depicting where its at.i forgot to answer the * thing. just like its said people hear from 20-20k in general thats true but the majority probably cant some people hear at 23 hz to 18k we all hear differently</blockquote>

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