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<blockquote data-quote="Thnking" data-source="post: 2653670" data-attributes="member: 571105"><p>Midbas doesn’t have 3 dimensional localization. It’s has nothing to do with midbass.</p><p></p><p>LOL.</p><p></p><p>Midbass isn’t being perceived as being 3 dimensionally localized. Simply moving a midbass speaker isn’t going to move the height and depth cues. So it has nothing to do with a learned response. It’s funny that you’re trying put things into your own context.</p><p></p><p>3 dimensional spatial cues aren’t related to “tactile energy”. Therefore height localization being referenced to midbass, isn’t a result of midbass reproduction. Place a midbass speaker in a wooden enclosure in a room. Low pass it at 400hz. Walk back and forward closer and farther away from the box to change the tactile sensation. You’ll never be able to vertically localize it.</p><p></p><p>You’re telling me that you’re dense enough to say a non-controlled environment with many varying acoustic properties, gives someone the ability to create a theory on a technical acoustical property of sound reproduction……lol</p><p></p><p>I could easily sit here and say frequencies under 200hz are NEVER going to be localized, and I have all of the proof to back myself up. But I’m not going to do that because I know azimuth cues exist below 200hz.</p><p></p><p>I know what azimuth means, I’ll explain to you how you’ve taken it out of context. The HRTF and spectral properties of monaural cues are used to determine front-back localization. These frequencies are above mid-bass. Left/right discrepancy uses binaural cues referenced from an azimuth location. Regardless of where on the azimuth the cues are referenced, the auditory system only provides a left/right location, not front/back.</p><p></p><p>I NEVER said it’s done in the wrong manner, only that it CAN be done DIFFERENTLY to obtain the same results. Is that plain enough for you…</p><p></p><p>With enough time, material, and money sure.</p><p></p><p>See above on why this is wrong.</p><p></p><p>I’m not a know-it-all, and I’m very open minded. I’ve been into car audio for 11 years, over that time I’ve formed various opinions based on experience and found through research and reading that those opinions were wrong. A lot of your comments show your immaturity, and egotistical bias.</p><p></p><p>I started this discussion non-confronting, trying to explain why localization doesn’t happen and why it does. I NEVER said I was superior to anyone, all I’ve read is why you and HH are somehow right and I’m wrong based on education. It’s obvious you 2 are buddies, because your comments have no educational value to anyone, you’re simply trying to show me why you think engineers are wrong…</p><p></p><p>It doesn’t, but at least now you’re having a discussion. Harmonic front to back localization of the misbass would mean, just as you said, harmonics of the resonance(s) would have to be at an audible level at the frequencies which cause front-back localization, which are around 2000hz. That’s not going to happen.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Thnking, post: 2653670, member: 571105"] Midbas doesn’t have 3 dimensional localization. It’s has nothing to do with midbass. LOL. Midbass isn’t being perceived as being 3 dimensionally localized. Simply moving a midbass speaker isn’t going to move the height and depth cues. So it has nothing to do with a learned response. It’s funny that you’re trying put things into your own context. 3 dimensional spatial cues aren’t related to “tactile energy”. Therefore height localization being referenced to midbass, isn’t a result of midbass reproduction. Place a midbass speaker in a wooden enclosure in a room. Low pass it at 400hz. Walk back and forward closer and farther away from the box to change the tactile sensation. You’ll never be able to vertically localize it. You’re telling me that you’re dense enough to say a non-controlled environment with many varying acoustic properties, gives someone the ability to create a theory on a technical acoustical property of sound reproduction……lol I could easily sit here and say frequencies under 200hz are NEVER going to be localized, and I have all of the proof to back myself up. But I’m not going to do that because I know azimuth cues exist below 200hz. I know what azimuth means, I’ll explain to you how you’ve taken it out of context. The HRTF and spectral properties of monaural cues are used to determine front-back localization. These frequencies are above mid-bass. Left/right discrepancy uses binaural cues referenced from an azimuth location. Regardless of where on the azimuth the cues are referenced, the auditory system only provides a left/right location, not front/back. I NEVER said it’s done in the wrong manner, only that it CAN be done DIFFERENTLY to obtain the same results. Is that plain enough for you… With enough time, material, and money sure. See above on why this is wrong. I’m not a know-it-all, and I’m very open minded. I’ve been into car audio for 11 years, over that time I’ve formed various opinions based on experience and found through research and reading that those opinions were wrong. A lot of your comments show your immaturity, and egotistical bias. I started this discussion non-confronting, trying to explain why localization doesn’t happen and why it does. I NEVER said I was superior to anyone, all I’ve read is why you and HH are somehow right and I’m wrong based on education. It’s obvious you 2 are buddies, because your comments have no educational value to anyone, you’re simply trying to show me why you think engineers are wrong… It doesn’t, but at least now you’re having a discussion. Harmonic front to back localization of the misbass would mean, just as you said, harmonics of the resonance(s) would have to be at an audible level at the frequencies which cause front-back localization, which are around 2000hz. That’s not going to happen. [/QUOTE]
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