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<blockquote data-quote="Thnking" data-source="post: 2647720" data-attributes="member: 571105"><p>But there isn’t any information backing up tactile 3-dimensional localization with mid bass. Either mid-bass has 3-dimensional localization cues or it doesn’t. And as soon as human perception and ego’s are thrown into the theoretical/physics vs perception mix, people start making up explanations of things for which they either don’t have the knowledge of or can’t find the knowledge of.</p><p></p><p>And I clearly defined tactile sensations having a definite psychoacoustic effect on sound reproduction.</p><p></p><p>Localization cues and the HRTF are very well studied topics. Hearing aid companies and spatial processing companies have dumped millions into the field. The fact remains that localization is based on particular factors, people may interpret them differently but the same principles apply.</p><p></p><p>A reality vs theoretical discussion is one where, for example, someone says “theoretically” rivers don’t flow in a direction opposing gravitational forces. And the “real world” person says, well "ABC river" is an example of a river which flows against gravitational forces. Theory vs. reality.</p><p></p><p>This is a discussion on causes of mid-bass localization. Theory vs theory.</p><p></p><p>HH is saying mid-bass is localized due to tactile localization (he hasn’t even mentioned how he came to this conclusion or why or given any supporting evidence). I’m saying frequencies under approx 250-200hz are very insensitive frequencies to humans for localization, so it’s very unlikely those frequencies will be localized- and also that mid-bass only needs to be mounted for azimuth localization because frequencies around 200-600hz only contain azimuth cues- and that tactile sensation only provides a familiarity reference for people, not a localization reference.</p><p></p><p>Did I ever say how someone should make the best sounding car’s out there…no I didn’t. You’re adding your own context to what I’m saying. I strictly said, that mid-bass doesn’t need to be aimed in the same manner he’s doing it in his vehicles for it to sound as good.</p><p></p><p>And let’s not forget audio installation is a learned process, a car I put together can sound just as good as a car someone else put together provided similar budgets and components/equipment and time frames are relevant to skill levels.</p><p></p><p>And I’m not a structural engineer, I’m a MEP engineer (mechanical, electrical, hydraulic) for a general contractor.</p><p></p><p>That’s not what it sounds like to me. It seems more like people have implanted some knowledge of how it’s “supposed” to be done and try to accomplish that goal. And in car audio its general practice, it seems, that mid bass in the rear is already not going to work just based on all of this “supposed to” information.</p><p></p><p>Like I said, midbass contains azmimuth cues, basically the definition of left and right.</p><p></p><p>What book says this, I‘ve repeated that mid-bass has azimuth cues almost every post. Maybe you need to concentrate more on understanding what you’re reading that criticizing people based on their education.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Thnking, post: 2647720, member: 571105"] But there isn’t any information backing up tactile 3-dimensional localization with mid bass. Either mid-bass has 3-dimensional localization cues or it doesn’t. And as soon as human perception and ego’s are thrown into the theoretical/physics vs perception mix, people start making up explanations of things for which they either don’t have the knowledge of or can’t find the knowledge of. And I clearly defined tactile sensations having a definite psychoacoustic effect on sound reproduction. Localization cues and the HRTF are very well studied topics. Hearing aid companies and spatial processing companies have dumped millions into the field. The fact remains that localization is based on particular factors, people may interpret them differently but the same principles apply. A reality vs theoretical discussion is one where, for example, someone says “theoretically” rivers don’t flow in a direction opposing gravitational forces. And the “real world” person says, well "ABC river" is an example of a river which flows against gravitational forces. Theory vs. reality. This is a discussion on causes of mid-bass localization. Theory vs theory. HH is saying mid-bass is localized due to tactile localization (he hasn’t even mentioned how he came to this conclusion or why or given any supporting evidence). I’m saying frequencies under approx 250-200hz are very insensitive frequencies to humans for localization, so it’s very unlikely those frequencies will be localized- and also that mid-bass only needs to be mounted for azimuth localization because frequencies around 200-600hz only contain azimuth cues- and that tactile sensation only provides a familiarity reference for people, not a localization reference. Did I ever say how someone should make the best sounding car’s out there…no I didn’t. You’re adding your own context to what I’m saying. I strictly said, that mid-bass doesn’t need to be aimed in the same manner he’s doing it in his vehicles for it to sound as good. And let’s not forget audio installation is a learned process, a car I put together can sound just as good as a car someone else put together provided similar budgets and components/equipment and time frames are relevant to skill levels. And I’m not a structural engineer, I’m a MEP engineer (mechanical, electrical, hydraulic) for a general contractor. That’s not what it sounds like to me. It seems more like people have implanted some knowledge of how it’s “supposed” to be done and try to accomplish that goal. And in car audio its general practice, it seems, that mid bass in the rear is already not going to work just based on all of this “supposed to” information. Like I said, midbass contains azmimuth cues, basically the definition of left and right. What book says this, I‘ve repeated that mid-bass has azimuth cues almost every post. Maybe you need to concentrate more on understanding what you’re reading that criticizing people based on their education. [/QUOTE]
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