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Hybrid Capactiros vs Capacitors
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<blockquote data-quote="dudadiesel" data-source="post: 8323903" data-attributes="member: 663369"><p>Ok, I finally found the chance to go out and get the answer to my question, which was not answered at all here, but did lead to helping me on the next one.</p><p></p><p>So to answer the question, a hybrid capacitor is an ultra capacitor. Ultra capacitor is a generic term for a high capacitance type of capacitor, and a hybrid capacitor is one of those types. This is why I was getting confused when everyone was spitting out the words of "they are junk, don't use them, use an ultra capacitor" because they are one in the same. I thought that maybe "ultracapacitor" was a brand name as opposed to the generic term of a type of capacitor. It was like saying "Don't use a V6, use a gasoline engine!" to my brain. Hybrids are ultra while ultras are not necessarily hybrids (could be one of the other 2 types, which are all related)</p><p></p><p>So, I still do not know for sure what the "normal" capacitors or "older" capacitors on the market are, but I think, since the capacity is very low, it's safe to assume that the type is what I would call a "traditional dielectric" capacitor. With that assumption made, those capacitors have twice the speed in releasing energy as ultra capacitors do, which is the drawback to an ultra capacitor. For more energy density with these neat little things that they are doing, they are sacrificing the ability to discharge that energy quickly and recharge back to full capacitance by roughly 50% loss.</p><p></p><p>However, as I kept reading around, I pulled out the calculator and figured out what 1 farad was in terms of joules and realized why everyone immediately bashes non-high capacitance capacitors. For a 3600w system, 1 farad will run your system for 0.02 seconds. Now, most looking for capacitors are probably trying to stop dimming lights problems or some sort of problem rather than fine tune a system like I am. So while I thought it was a little better than 0.02 seconds, by no means was I asking the difference in types of capacitors thinking like this was going to be a battery added to my "problem" and so the answers thrown at me didn't exactly help much. I already have a KHC3800 power cell lined up to handle the system on top of my 250amp alternator upgrade (there will be no battery so it can run at the highest voltage as I've read batteries put a drain on power cells) so my thought has been that I simply need something which will discharge faster than the power cell to give me even more. In the past, I had found the power cells were enough, but this time around funds are not an issue so even if I won't notice the difference, I still want to do it.</p><p></p><p>So now that brings me to the final question at hand. How much faster does an ultra capacitor discharge current than a power cell? The point of the cap is to make up for what the power cell can't do, which is discharge current rapidly, while the power cell is there to hold onto that charge and keep me going. Since I expect my booms to be in longer durations than 0.02s, I am going to drop the idea of a traditional capacitor as I do not want to have to chain 100 of those together to get the best performance (which would outperform a super capacitor with 50 farads in it). So I am looking at ultra capacitors in the high capacitance range if those capacitors still discharge much faster than the power cell, and I am sure they do. I even saw a 500 farad one out there which I might try for fun. But by no means am I trying to turn off my car and keep running my system with "storage" from a capacitor. I couldn't give a **** about that. if this was a lights dimming issue, I'd just put more power cells. I'm just looking to put as much relief on the car and the amp as I can.</p><p></p><p>So has anyone stumbled on information about discharge rates of power cells vs capacitors? I have yet to still put the time into looking at that but I may soon if nobody knows and someone is interested to know just how much "better" they would be for discharge rates. I don't really care about capacitance. Just measuring in farads is enough to tell me that the energy density *****. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif</p><p></p><p>Oh by the way. Give it 15-20 years. Capacitors will earn enough energy density to replace batteries and it will be awesome. Charge your cell phone in 10 seconds, and with a capacitor in theory it will always charge in full and never "go bad." Imagine an electric car that runs on a capacitor. Drive 50 miles, plug in, charged in 5 seconds and ready to keep going. another 10 years down the road and the 50 miles = 500 miles. can't wait for batteries to be overrun for those types of purposes, but we're still far into the transitioning stage.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dudadiesel, post: 8323903, member: 663369"] Ok, I finally found the chance to go out and get the answer to my question, which was not answered at all here, but did lead to helping me on the next one. So to answer the question, a hybrid capacitor is an ultra capacitor. Ultra capacitor is a generic term for a high capacitance type of capacitor, and a hybrid capacitor is one of those types. This is why I was getting confused when everyone was spitting out the words of "they are junk, don't use them, use an ultra capacitor" because they are one in the same. I thought that maybe "ultracapacitor" was a brand name as opposed to the generic term of a type of capacitor. It was like saying "Don't use a V6, use a gasoline engine!" to my brain. Hybrids are ultra while ultras are not necessarily hybrids (could be one of the other 2 types, which are all related) So, I still do not know for sure what the "normal" capacitors or "older" capacitors on the market are, but I think, since the capacity is very low, it's safe to assume that the type is what I would call a "traditional dielectric" capacitor. With that assumption made, those capacitors have twice the speed in releasing energy as ultra capacitors do, which is the drawback to an ultra capacitor. For more energy density with these neat little things that they are doing, they are sacrificing the ability to discharge that energy quickly and recharge back to full capacitance by roughly 50% loss. However, as I kept reading around, I pulled out the calculator and figured out what 1 farad was in terms of joules and realized why everyone immediately bashes non-high capacitance capacitors. For a 3600w system, 1 farad will run your system for 0.02 seconds. Now, most looking for capacitors are probably trying to stop dimming lights problems or some sort of problem rather than fine tune a system like I am. So while I thought it was a little better than 0.02 seconds, by no means was I asking the difference in types of capacitors thinking like this was going to be a battery added to my "problem" and so the answers thrown at me didn't exactly help much. I already have a KHC3800 power cell lined up to handle the system on top of my 250amp alternator upgrade (there will be no battery so it can run at the highest voltage as I've read batteries put a drain on power cells) so my thought has been that I simply need something which will discharge faster than the power cell to give me even more. In the past, I had found the power cells were enough, but this time around funds are not an issue so even if I won't notice the difference, I still want to do it. So now that brings me to the final question at hand. How much faster does an ultra capacitor discharge current than a power cell? The point of the cap is to make up for what the power cell can't do, which is discharge current rapidly, while the power cell is there to hold onto that charge and keep me going. Since I expect my booms to be in longer durations than 0.02s, I am going to drop the idea of a traditional capacitor as I do not want to have to chain 100 of those together to get the best performance (which would outperform a super capacitor with 50 farads in it). So I am looking at ultra capacitors in the high capacitance range if those capacitors still discharge much faster than the power cell, and I am sure they do. I even saw a 500 farad one out there which I might try for fun. But by no means am I trying to turn off my car and keep running my system with "storage" from a capacitor. I couldn't give a **** about that. if this was a lights dimming issue, I'd just put more power cells. I'm just looking to put as much relief on the car and the amp as I can. So has anyone stumbled on information about discharge rates of power cells vs capacitors? I have yet to still put the time into looking at that but I may soon if nobody knows and someone is interested to know just how much "better" they would be for discharge rates. I don't really care about capacitance. Just measuring in farads is enough to tell me that the energy density *****. [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif[/IMG] Oh by the way. Give it 15-20 years. Capacitors will earn enough energy density to replace batteries and it will be awesome. Charge your cell phone in 10 seconds, and with a capacitor in theory it will always charge in full and never "go bad." Imagine an electric car that runs on a capacitor. Drive 50 miles, plug in, charged in 5 seconds and ready to keep going. another 10 years down the road and the 50 miles = 500 miles. can't wait for batteries to be overrun for those types of purposes, but we're still far into the transitioning stage. [/QUOTE]
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