Gentleman, The President of the United States

[fasfocus00 5,000+ posts]

And who officers your business loans? Extends lines of credit? Or, are you a cash-only operation?
Everybody is somebody's little *****. Even say, the president of the U.S.

Not to say the other dude has any more valid of a point than you do. Both of you are blowing hot air.

all of my employee are 1099'd, my only loan is on the building I'm in. I've paid off all other debts and operate in the black 98% of the year.

 

[King_corral 10+ year member]

illegals have jobs cause they work harder than the hill billy as.s white folks.

if they couldnt than id see qualified whites or even blacks throwing over the illegals.

 

[sue bee 10+ year member]

all of my employee are 1099'd, my only loan is on the building I'm in. I've paid off all other debts and operate in the black 98% of the year.

While that's all good and well, you see my point. You're renting your building. Who are you renting from? Who controls rent and fees? If you owned, who controls taxes and fees? Unless you're living in the woods, cut off from society, somebody/something is influencing or controlling you. That's all I'm saying. So while owning a business has its personal benefits, it's by no means unilaterally superior to being an employee. Far from it, actually.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

i don't know any whites or blacks or asians willing to take a job as the maid of the Holiday Inn or as the orange picker at the Tropican Fields. illegals have all the jobs that the other wont work. for everyone that says that there are no jobs out there needs to get their shit together and **** up their pride and just work. I see "Now Hiring" signs all over the place yet everyone complains that there are no jobs out ther.

I see this argument a lot. While it holds truth with the current situation, ultimately its logic has a big flaw. The basic law of supply and demand would create the void, and it would be filled. What I mean is, with the availability of illegal immigrants willing to work for less $, the value of the positions you refer to decrease, creating a pay grade that only illegals would accept. A self-perpetuating problem. Being a business owner, Im sure you'll understand when I say that if the pool of illegals was no longer available, these positions' pay rates would increase until the jobs were filled. People seem to think if the illegals disappeared tomorrow, hand-picked fields would no longer get worked. False thinking. Reality is farm owners, to continue the example, would simply pay what would attract non-illegals. Ultimately the price would be felt in the grocery store, by the consumer. The problem is not that non-illegals are unwilling to do the work illegals are, its that consumers like the cheaper prices of goods. But this is also a self-perpetuating problem, as you and I paying less for those groceries also helps to stifle the economy in the form of less jobs in the job pool, thanks to creating the void for illegals to fill.
Another problem the artificially cheap labor rates illegals create is less automation. Fields that would otherwise be worked by new, automated machinery, is still worked by hand due to the labor rates offered by illegals. Not all farmers would/could automate the work if illegals disappeared, but certainly come of them could. More automated equipment would mean more higher paying jobs building and maintaining these pieces of equipment. And before anyone says it, at least some of the equipment would be built domestically, certainly all maintenance would be local.

Go ask a certified welder, for example, if illegal immigrants have affected their job pool. Even mechanics, truck drivers, etc. Illegals affect more than simply bean pickers and hotel maids.

illegals have jobs cause they work harder than the hill billy as.s white folks. if they couldnt than id see qualified whites or even blacks throwing over the illegals.

The flaw in this logic is, once again, labor rates and benefits (or the lack of which). Illegals do not get insurance (usually), their employers dont have to worry about paying unemployment (etc) nor worry nearly as much about working conditions, etc. If the farmer had to hire legal US citizens, the cost of labor would increase by more than just the $ per hour rate increase it would take to entice legal citizens to work for them. They would also be expected to have sick pay, vacation allotment, insurance, workman's comp, unemployment, etc. All this would, as I said above, eventually be paid by the consumer.

Simple supply and demand situation here guys. Im often amazed how intelligent, educated, even powerful people fall into the flawed thinking of 'Americans wouldnt do the work'. I guess fields were never worked by hand, docks were never worked by Americans, floors didnt sweep themselves and rich people all cleaned up after themselves before the huge upswing of illegal immigrants came into this country...?

 

[KyleBechtold 5,000+ posts]

Get over it. Your world/ You can make 45k doing yards b!tch.

You can make 45k at Quick Trip.

If you call that a higher paying job then your world/

I made 45k last year part time while in school.

I don’t complain about other people living their lives. If they get the job then cool. I never went without a job. Your obviously prejudice and bored stupid to be here nitpicking a language error on a car audio forum. So Shut your gay *** mouth and go **** Mickey’s ****.

45k part time.. what job was this? I want an actual business and job title..

sorry man but you have no point. I paid more in taxes last year than you made. I actually own my own company and create jobs while you sit back and complain. when you finish school you'll be working for someone being their little bitch. amazing how you talk about how much you make but yet you're at the mercy of the company you work for.

what business?

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

45k part time.. what job was this? I want an actual business and job title..

Gay **** most likely.

 

[KyleBechtold 5,000+ posts]

I see this argument a lot. While it holds truth with the current situation, ultimately its logic has a big flaw. The basic law of supply and demand would create the void, and it would be filled. What I mean is, with the availability of illegal immigrants willing to work for less $, the value of the positions you refer to decrease, creating a pay grade that only illegals would accept. A self-perpetuating problem. Being a business owner, Im sure you'll understand when I say that if the pool of illegals was no longer available, these positions' pay rates would increase until the jobs were filled. People seem to think if the illegals disappeared tomorrow, hand-picked fields would no longer get worked. False thinking. Reality is farm owners, to continue the example, would simply pay what would attract non-illegals. Ultimately the price would be felt in the grocery store, by the consumer. The problem is not that non-illegals are unwilling to do the work illegals are, its that consumers like the cheaper prices of goods. But this is also a self-perpetuating problem, as you and I paying less for those groceries also helps to stifle the economy in the form of less jobs in the job pool, thanks to creating the void for illegals to fill.
Another problem the artificially cheap labor rates illegals create is less automation. Fields that would otherwise be worked by new, automated machinery, is still worked by hand due to the labor rates offered by illegals. Not all farmers would/could automate the work if illegals disappeared, but certainly come of them could. More automated equipment would mean more higher paying jobs building and maintaining these pieces of equipment. And before anyone says it, at least some of the equipment would be built domestically, certainly all maintenance would be local.

The flaw in this logic is, once again, labor rates and benefits (or the lack of which). Illegals do not get insurance (usually), their employers dont have to worry about paying unemployment (etc) nor worry nearly as much about working conditions, etc. If the farmer had to hire legal US citizens, the cost of labor would increase by more than just the $ per hour rate increase it would take to entice legal citizens to work for them. They would also be expected to have sick pay, vacation allotment, insurance, workman's comp, unemployment, etc. All this would, as I said above, eventually be paid by the consumer.

Simple supply and demand situation here guys. Im often amazed how intelligent, educated, even powerful people fall into the flawed thinking of 'Americans wouldnt do the work'. I guess fields were never worked by hand, docks were never worked by Americans, floors didnt sweep themselves and rich people all cleaned up after themselves before the huge upswing of illegal immigrants came into this country...?

this.. the people doing the jobs are used to living in poverty.. hell think if you brought some africans here straight from the jungle.. you give em water every couple hours and a piece a bread the will do whatever you want..

 

[KyleBechtold 5,000+ posts]

Gay **** most likely.

He went by the name mike hancho? did a full spread? pulled his butt cheeks apart and everything?

 

[smullen 10+ year member]

I'd like to see actual facts (provable) on what jobs they created and how many...

 

[smullen 10+ year member]

I don't trust the govt, ® or (D)... They are mostly all crooks and not interested in whats best for the citizens as a whole... But whats going to get them more voters and more power...

 

[the727kid 10+ year member]

If you took away all illegals, people would take those jobs. Market labor demand curve would increase, with no one wanting these jobs, the hourly wage would rise causing the individual supply curve to rise, and then hit an equilibrium to back where we are. It'd be a cycle that would get legal citizens to work in jobs they originally didn't want.

 

[TurdFergueson2 5,000+ posts]

lulz

It's one thing to be a *** and make racist comments.

It's another to change said racist comments. The bish is strong in this one.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

If you took away all illegals, people would take those jobs. Market labor demand curve would increase, with no one wanting these jobs, the hourly wage would rise causing the individual supply curve to rise, and then hit an equilibrium to back where we are. It'd be a cycle that would get legal citizens to work in jobs they originally didn't want.

You just said the same thing I already did, in case you missed my post. And to take it one step further, the rising cost of medical bills we are all hearing so much news about these days, would be lessened (somewhat) if the illegal immigrants were made to follow the rules the rest of us must live by. Employers do not offer, or co-pay, for insurance when they hire illegals. But those illegals certainly still get medical help when they go to the local hospital. Guess who pays for those otherwise unpaid bills... the doctor? The hospital? We, the taxpayers and the ones who actually pay our medical debts, do.
Last year a friend of mine was t-boned by an illegal immigrant who ran a stop sign. Clearly the illegal's fault. The illegal had no insurance, didnt even have a driver's license. My frind's car was totalled, and his wife and two children had to go to the hospital. The illegal was questioned for 15 mins, then released. Released. He was off scott-free before the ambulance even arrived. A recent DUI check point in Santa Maria Ca stopped 200 cars, per its quota for the night. Out of 200 drivers, more than 180 were illegal immigrants with no driver's license. Over 90%. Guess how many were arrested. Zero. Guess how many were allowed to drive away with no consequences. Every single one of them. This info is from the Santa maria Times, and is simply the nomral operating procedure. The article in the paper wasn't even based on expressing any outrage or concern over the illegals with no license, it was merely a fact-based article describing the results of the traffic check point. Things are getting real bad. Illegal immigrants have virtually no fear of consequences for breaking the law, causing problems locally, or even for putting legal citizens in danger.

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

You just said the same thing I already did, in case you missed my post. And to take it one step further, the rising cost of medical bills we are all hearing so much news about these days, would be lessened (somewhat) if the illegal immigrants were made to follow the rules the rest of us must live by. Employers do not offer, or co-pay, for insurance when they hire illegals. But those illegals certainly still get medical help when they go to the local hospital. Guess who pays for those otherwise unpaid bills... the doctor? The hospital? We, the taxpayers and the ones who actually pay our medical debts, do.

Was coming in here to say that, but it's already been said. That cheap produce and cheap labor isn't so cheap when you figure in what you pay in taxes to cover "healthcare" for illegals either via the emergency room, or through new Obama care and Obama amnesty if it happens.

All we do by continuing to ignore illegal immigration or possibly give amnesty, is subsidize businesses that employ illegals, with all of our tax dollars. It's awesome.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Was coming in here to say that, but it's already been said. That cheap produce and cheap labor isn't so cheap when you figure in what you pay in taxes to cover "healthcare" for illegals either via the emergency room, or through new Obama care and Obama amnesty if it happens.
All we do by continuing to ignore illegal immigration or possibly give amnesty, is subsidize businesses that employ illegals, with all of our tax dollars. It's awesome.

The really sad part is, those businesses who employ illegals wouldnt even go out of business if we made them start employing only legal citizens, they would merely have to raise prices in order to offset the higher overhead paid out. Its the consumer who would feel it in their pocketbook, something American's seem unwilling to do, even knowing it would help stimulate the economy and create a lot of new jobs. Obama is scrambling to find new ideas to increase jobs in this country... how about kicking out all the non-citizens taking jobs. Any time this idea is mentioned, people scream businesses would die, again apparently forgetting the most basic law of our economy, supply and demand. Im not even a financial expert, why is it I can figure that problem out while all our politicians and financial experts muck around in speculation based off of nonsensical claims? I think its politically motivated, the Dems want the hispanic vote and the Reps are afraid of being made to look like racists. Pathetic.