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Elemental Designs 13Av.2 Subwoofer ??
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<blockquote data-quote="Electrodynamic" data-source="post: 6026607" data-attributes="member: 548723"><p>...had to split this puppy up to fit on here. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif</p><p></p><p></p><p>Already have:</p><p></p><p><img src="http://www.stereointegrity.com/images/Lexus/RTA4.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>That is an RTA from the XTZ Room Analyzer with calibrated microphone in the driver side listening position in a Lexus SC400 with zero EQ work. The graph ranges from 16Hz to 20 kHz. Apparently you CAN get to below 20 Hz with that "limited" excursion driver! Hey, guess what - your headphones can do 10 Hz, too with just a fraction of a mm of linear stroke!</p><p></p><p></p><p>You don't quite understand F-M curves, do you? They are for pure tone perception if you were doing a sine sweep. For music, they do not apply as much because of the broad and thick spectral content; in that case you do want a flat frequency response. And in that case, I can reach 110 dB SPL (which many people would consider loud - not you, but again understand that you (Nick) are NOT the <em>entire</em> car audio market) with ease.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Nope, you are wrong. Please see the Robson-Dadson curves that plot audibility down to 10 Hz. Furthermore there was a lot of research into audibility into the 3 Hz range (by I believe Tom Danley, of all people). It takes about 130 dB for you to "hear" it but you can.</p><p></p><p>There IS no lower limit on frequency response audibility. There is a limit for a given SPL, however.</p><p></p><p>For those of you who want to learn or read more on the subject you might want to check out "Infrasound and Low Frequency Vibration" edited by W. Tempest, published by Academic press. Or the classical 1967 paper on the audibility of infrasound by humans by Michael Yeawart (1967). Or the article on how <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound" target="_blank">humans can hear infrasound (sound below 20 Hz)</a>.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Please tell me the function (independent of SPL) that relates stroke to bandwidth. There isn't such a function!</p><p></p><p>For a given stroke, I may or may not be able to reach 15 Hz at a given SPL! You CANNOT talk bandwidth limitations and stroke WITHOUT talking SPL. We know that 7mm is all that's needed (at most) to reach 110+ dB SPL in a car at 20 Hz. For a VAST majority of the general public - and a large segment of the car audio buying public - that would be more than loud enough!</p><p></p><p>So again, you're making the mistake of trying to relate stroke to bandwidth while ignoring output. You CANNOT do it! It's flat out wrong.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Then maybe Mr. Clark would be a better comparison. And if anything it further shows that there are a dozen million ways to skin the cat; would you at least agree to that, and that for some people your requirements are immaterial?</p><p></p><p></p><p>If it takes more power than you need it to take, who cares? If you have 500W for your sub, are you going to be pissed off because your subwoofer "only handles" 1 kW, and not 10 kW? Again, you're making broad assumptions that your solution is the only solution on the market. But given your ideas towards market development, that's not much of a shock.</p><p></p><p></p><p>EXACTLY! For some people, power handling is the end-all/be-all of a subwoofer. For others, it's linear inductance. Getting a hard-on because someone prefers what you don't is immature at best...</p><p></p><p></p><p>Hi David! Can you tell us what driver Scott ran? Just curious, I guess I'm not up to speed on what he's running in the car now...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Electrodynamic, post: 6026607, member: 548723"] ...had to split this puppy up to fit on here. [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif[/IMG] Already have: [IMG]http://www.stereointegrity.com/images/Lexus/RTA4.jpg[/IMG] That is an RTA from the XTZ Room Analyzer with calibrated microphone in the driver side listening position in a Lexus SC400 with zero EQ work. The graph ranges from 16Hz to 20 kHz. Apparently you CAN get to below 20 Hz with that "limited" excursion driver! Hey, guess what - your headphones can do 10 Hz, too with just a fraction of a mm of linear stroke! You don't quite understand F-M curves, do you? They are for pure tone perception if you were doing a sine sweep. For music, they do not apply as much because of the broad and thick spectral content; in that case you do want a flat frequency response. And in that case, I can reach 110 dB SPL (which many people would consider loud - not you, but again understand that you (Nick) are NOT the [I]entire[/I] car audio market) with ease. Nope, you are wrong. Please see the Robson-Dadson curves that plot audibility down to 10 Hz. Furthermore there was a lot of research into audibility into the 3 Hz range (by I believe Tom Danley, of all people). It takes about 130 dB for you to "hear" it but you can. There IS no lower limit on frequency response audibility. There is a limit for a given SPL, however. For those of you who want to learn or read more on the subject you might want to check out "Infrasound and Low Frequency Vibration" edited by W. Tempest, published by Academic press. Or the classical 1967 paper on the audibility of infrasound by humans by Michael Yeawart (1967). Or the article on how [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound"]humans can hear infrasound (sound below 20 Hz)[/URL]. Please tell me the function (independent of SPL) that relates stroke to bandwidth. There isn't such a function! For a given stroke, I may or may not be able to reach 15 Hz at a given SPL! You CANNOT talk bandwidth limitations and stroke WITHOUT talking SPL. We know that 7mm is all that's needed (at most) to reach 110+ dB SPL in a car at 20 Hz. For a VAST majority of the general public - and a large segment of the car audio buying public - that would be more than loud enough! So again, you're making the mistake of trying to relate stroke to bandwidth while ignoring output. You CANNOT do it! It's flat out wrong. Then maybe Mr. Clark would be a better comparison. And if anything it further shows that there are a dozen million ways to skin the cat; would you at least agree to that, and that for some people your requirements are immaterial? If it takes more power than you need it to take, who cares? If you have 500W for your sub, are you going to be pissed off because your subwoofer "only handles" 1 kW, and not 10 kW? Again, you're making broad assumptions that your solution is the only solution on the market. But given your ideas towards market development, that's not much of a shock. EXACTLY! For some people, power handling is the end-all/be-all of a subwoofer. For others, it's linear inductance. Getting a hard-on because someone prefers what you don't is immature at best... Hi David! Can you tell us what driver Scott ran? Just curious, I guess I'm not up to speed on what he's running in the car now... [/QUOTE]
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Elemental Designs 13Av.2 Subwoofer ??
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