chubby: dam stubborn and head strong too...at least I can admit it //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif
beandip: taken one apart is relevant for the fact that if you check out what's inside, there are striking similarities between the AC-e and other equipment on the market. Thank you for a voice of reason though. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
~this may take a while so if you don't wanna read *shrug*~
forbidden:
"A line driver boosts voltage on a large scale across the entire frequency spectrum on the preamp lines" do ALL line drivers do exactly that? Does EVERY line driver boost the ENTIRE signal? Are there ANY line drivers that utilize notch filters in order to dedicate them to a specific freq. range where sound is usually lacking? Does EVERY line driver just have a level knob? What about those with sub/midbass/midhigh/high knobs as well? Do those boost the ENTIRE signal or just at those four main points? PPI par-245 doesn't boost EVERY frequency...Neither does a LPpa2. How does the AC-e's sound differ from a simple ppi pmq-230?
Open one up and compare it to ALL line drivers on the market and see the similarities.
"There is no other device in car audio that is current technology that does like the Epicenter does" bs...it is not current technology it is old and there are other products that can do everything the AC-e does and then some.
"The closest thing to it (matter of fact IIRC there were legal issues over it due to patent infringement) was a KLW Audio piece and that would be about 15 years ago" 15 years ago? I thought it was current technology we're talking about? That's right, AC-e is old stuff reinvented and marketed as new. IF AC-e is new stuff how can they take KLW to court for something they made 15 years ago?
"It needs to see a full range signal to recreate the lower frequencies based on the harmonics found going octaves higher than the sub bass region. Basically it starts looking for harmonics way up at say 2000 hz, then an octave down at 1000 hz, then an octave down at 500 hz and so on until it is in the low low low frequency range. When it has arrived at this area it now has a "map" to base what to "add" to the signal that was missing. A dedicated line driver cannot do this, a dedicated line driver takes the same signal and amplifies it to make it a bigger signal for lack of better words."
What would the squeak of a piano pedal have to do with the bass response of the tuba sitting across the way? Why would this magic box NEED to read that wide range in order to properly recreate 5-60hz? If built properly wouldn't it be agreeable that it would only NEED to "see" the subsonic frequencies in order recreate the subsonic frequencies? If it were built properly wouldn't it be more beneficial to work the entire system, not just bass? So if a line driver only adds a bigger signal down the chain...why would the AC-e need to '"add" to the signal that was missing' if it didn't have characteristics of a line driver? If the AC-e didn't do ANY SORT of what a line driver does then why would you be able to turn it up? Wouldn't it be just a box that you plug in line like the oz spacial rest.? I mean, if that's all the AC-e does anyway?
Take it apart and analyze different line drivers on the market...they both start at the same basic principles. Just because it has a "notch filter" that's dedicated to sub range (among a few other things) doesn't mean it's special on any account. Especially being that not all line drivers boost the entire signal, only some.
"The Epicenter if one would only read the manual needs a full range signal, thus it is best hooked up on a full range preout, then if you want to eq it, or line drive it or call it Mabel, you can." What looks good on paper rarely has anything to do with real world. Hence the reason why I believe most manuals are loaded full of nonsense. What a company puts into a manual holds little weight in my decision to purchase. Manuals, like max output at 14.4v, are little more than a marketing tool used to sell product. Need one reason why I believe that? Why would most companies have a section in the manual that explains how to install it just to state in the back "warranty void if not installed by an authorized dealer"? Simple, banking on the fact that uneducated people are reading their manual and purchasing their product. They toss in that cya (cover your azz) note in the back for legal reasons.
That manual can tell me Mabel is the best thing to happen since chunky peanutbutter and some can believe it...unfortunately it seems you are one of them. In a nice little bag of nutshells here, manuals do little for me nor any other educated person that relies on the real world.
"If you put an Epicenter on a sub out line from a head and engage the crossover it is a huge difference in output from a system, why, because the harmonics necessary to develop the frequencies are no longer there." The harmonics necessary to reproduce true bass aren't in the 1000+hz zone. Again, a squeaky piano pedal has nothing to do with the tuba sitting across the way.
"For the dude with the 10" in the front stage, disconnect it and hook up an Epicenter and see what it does, it will do Jack Scratch for you." *shrug* The AC-e did less than Jack Scratch for me anyway...that's why it was pulled from my car a long time ago and given away. Where are all the precious AC-e's nowadays? Just because it was designed to run off that entire span of frequencies doesn't make it a perfect design. Personally, I find it to be a decent idea but a waste being it's only for bass. Why is it made just for bass? Bigger market for bass products because the masses care more about bass than sound quality of everything as a whole.
A for effort...D- for nice try...F for tossing in that 'db meter' in their newer models.
"Sure it is louder but what happens when you try and take it up to the same volume that it was at before, clipping all over the map, why, because when you install a line driver, you must turn down the gain control or you will be clipping all over the map." Are you relying on the little light to tell you when you're clipping? You know that some products have that 'idiot' light there flashing to indicate 12db within clipping range...stays constantly lit at clipping level. Sorry, I rely on that light just as much as my old indicator in the dash that told me when to shift. I know when to shift and I know when I clip. I don't know how you install your stereo and it's none of my business to tell you what to do...but personally I ALWAYS keep the volume knob on the deck at the EXACT same spot. I don't touch the deck's volume knob in any way. I use the volume knobs on the gear down the line as needed.
"Like was pointed out above, it is not a magic box but to confuse it as a line driver because it adds something to the signal is totally incorrect." No confusion here...I know exactly what it does and that is strikingly similar to what some line drivers do in a sense (no I didn't need the manual to tell me that). Just so happens to add some coloration and warmth to the bass where other "plain and simple line drivers" do not. But not ALL line drivers...know what's on the market before claiming what EVERY line driver does/doesn't do.
Hook up an oz audio spacial rest. and an LPpa2 and listen (or a pmq-230 if you want). Then go back to a ride with an AC-e and tell the forum the differences.
!!IMO!! the AC-e is just another line driver with the ability to add some 'color' to the bass.
