Adire Audio Power Handling Chart

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Originally posted by BonusBobo I agree. Meh, he's gonna talk to dan.

How about I do one better... I'll bring him to this thread for you. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[BonusBobo 10+ year member]

Originally posted by jlaine How about I do one better... I'll bring him to this thread for you. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I don't understand, you'll bring Dan into the thread? If you can really do that, then YES, please do. I email those guys but I get no replies.

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Originally posted by BonusBobo I don't understand, you'll bring Dan into the thread? If you can really do that, then YES, please do. I email those guys but I get no replies.

I will. I won't do this often, as my information should have been enough to put your concerns at ease, the only thing Dan is going to do is reinforce what I've already said about the matter.

But... since I'm not apparently getting the job done, I'll let Dan repeat what I've said already.

 

[BonusBobo 10+ year member]

Originally posted by jlaine I will. I won't do this often, as my information should have been enough to put your concerns at ease, the only thing Dan is going to do is reinforce what I've already said about the matter.

 

But... since I'm not apparently getting the job done, I'll let Dan repeat what I've said already.

Cool. This is awesome. Sorry if I'm insulting you by not taking your word. It's just I'm real confused.

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Originally posted by BonusBobo Cool. This is awesome. Sorry if I'm insulting you by not taking your word. It's just I'm real confused.

No big deal, I just don't like bothering Dan on matters like this as he's a busy guy and I bother him enough as it is... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif If you are confused, ask for clarification, I'll be glad to fill you in as much as you need. I didn't get the Adire dealer tag by being a complete bonehead. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Put it this way.

Like I had said before, and per that chart, 800W rms is enough to bring your B15 to maximum excursion during transient bursts. Constant sine waves and the like should NOT bring it to full excursion, but will be close. (close enough that your eyes should NOT be able to see the difference from that, and complete linear excursion) Remember the 'peak' figure on the amp? That is what you'll get for a burst, like the hit of a kick drum or the like.

We'll break this completely down for you.

Drivers have two types of power handling. Mechanical and thermal. The brahma's rating thermally is determined by the IEC rating you see on the site. Note that this is NOT a sine bomb test, this is a devised general standard that is in use in the industry.

What you are looking at when you look at that chart is mechanical power handling, INDEPENDANT of thermal power handling. In other words, put THAT driver in THAT enclosure, and if you know how to treat the coil, you can throw XXXX watts into the brahma without bottoming out and hammering the suspension.

As you can see from the graph, smaller box, more mechanical power handling. Larger box, less mechanical power handling. This is caused by the increased airspring in the enclosure you have the box in (fighting cone motion either direction). Again, note that the figures that were placed on that site by Adire, completely ignore the thermal handling of the coil. This is apparent by the boldfaced wattage numbers that are above RMS limits - and the subtext that says "hey, use at your own risk"

Now when we get down to the nitty-gritty, I have to ask you this, how small of a box is this mystery person asking you to install the B15 in? You were saying the person suggesting the enclosure for you is saying to go even smaller than the chart goes, are you saying he is telling you to go smaller than 1 cubic foot? (the smallest given on that chart)

I'm going to attempt to clarifiy this as best I can here, but I need to understand what you are being told behind the scenes.

 

[BonusBobo 10+ year member]

Originally posted by jlaine No big deal, I just don't like bothering Dan on matters like this as he's a busy guy and I bother him enough as it is... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif If you are confused, ask for clarification, I'll be glad to fill you in as much as you need. I didn't get the Adire dealer tag by being a complete bonehead. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

Put it this way.

 

Like I had said before, and per that chart, 800W rms is enough to bring your B15 to maximum excursion during transient bursts. Constant sine waves and the like should NOT bring it to full excursion, but will be close. (close enough that your eyes should NOT be able to see the difference from that, and complete linear excursion) Remember the 'peak' figure on the amp? That is what you'll get for a burst, like the hit of a kick drum or the like.

 

We'll break this completely down for you.

 

Drivers have two types of power handling. Mechanical and thermal. The brahma's rating thermally is determined by the IEC rating you see on the site. Note that this is NOT a sine bomb test, this is a devised general standard that is in use in the industry.

 

What you are looking at when you look at that chart is mechanical power handling, INDEPENDANT of thermal power handling. In other words, put THAT driver in THAT enclosure, and if you know how to treat the coil, you can throw XXXX watts into the brahma without bottoming out and hammering the suspension.

 

As you can see from the graph, smaller box, more mechanical power handling. Larger box, less mechanical power handling. This is caused by the increased airspring in the enclosure you have the box in (fighting cone motion either direction). Again, note that the figures that were placed on that site by Adire, completely ignore the thermal handling of the coil. This is apparent by the boldfaced wattage numbers that are above RMS limits - and the subtext that says "hey, use at your own risk"

 

Now when we get down to the nitty-gritty, I have to ask you this, how small of a box is this mystery person asking you to install the B15 in? You were saying the person suggesting the enclosure for you is saying to go even smaller than the chart goes, are you saying he is telling you to go smaller than 1 cubic foot? (the smallest given on that chart)

 

I'm going to attempt to clarifiy this as best I can here, but I need to understand what you are being told behind the scenes.

Here's a direct quote from his last email:

The power handling chart on the Adire site is a *max* power handling chart, where the

driver is driven to the limit. With the XBL technology, this is something

that you do not want to do. Read the owners manual off the website, and it

will explain why this is bad. So we definitely want the box volume to be

somewhat less than 2.8 cu-ft.

That threw me off. He didn't give me any specific measurements, as he wanted to talk to Dan first, but that's what he said. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Originally posted by BonusBobo Here's a direct quote from his last email:

 

The power handling chart on the Adire site is a *max* power handling chart, where the

driver is driven to the limit. With the XBL technology, this is something

that you do not want to do. Read the owners manual off the website, and it

will explain why this is bad. So we definitely want the box volume to be

somewhat less than 2.8 cu-ft.

 

That threw me off. He didn't give me any specific measurements, as he wanted to talk to Dan first, but that's what he said. Thanks again for all the help.

First off, that is not a max power handling chart. That is a RMS power handling chart.

I know people with 1.2kW on the driver with 2.85 cubic feet sealed. No problems...

I know people with 1.4kW on the driver with 2.9 cubic feet ported. No problems...

There is nothing about XBL^2 that will make the driver bottom out in 2.8 cubic feet with 800 watts. There is zero harm in using your 800 watts for that enclosure. I can't stress it enough, again, and again, and again. It's safe with that enclosure. XBL^2 was designed to keep the driver more linear within it's operational limits, it doesn't make it more finicky, just more linear. Take any enclosure modeling program (like WinISD Pro Alpha for example) and plot out your linear excursion once. Given the fact that they cannot account for power compression or non-linearities with the driver, and the fact that it says it is completely safe with that enclosure, I'd feel beyond comfortable with the power being given to the driver.

Dan's attention has been brought to this thread, he'll post on it inside of the next day or two.

 

[bigbassman Premium Member]

Dan Wiggins.....

he seemed so cool online..

then I met him in person.. and WOW.. he's my hero..

even let me throw that big ol Tumult on my head..

he backed out of the eating contest.. he knew he couldn't hang.. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

COME ON DAN.. take a bow.. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

remember this? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Loyd L.

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

LOL... Prepping dan for showing up are we... lol

 

[BonusBobo 10+ year member]

Originally posted by jlaine First off, that is not a max power handling chart. That is a RMS power handling chart.

 

I know people with 1.2kW on the driver with 2.85 cubic feet sealed. No problems...

 

I know people with 1.4kW on the driver with 2.9 cubic feet ported. No problems...

 

There is nothing about XBL^2 that will make the driver bottom out in 2.8 cubic feet with 800 watts. There is zero harm in using your 800 watts for that enclosure. I can't stress it enough, again, and again, and again. It's safe with that enclosure. XBL^2 was designed to keep the driver more linear within it's operational limits, it doesn't make it more finicky, just more linear. Take any enclosure modeling program (like WinISD Pro Alpha for example) and plot out your linear excursion once. Given the fact that they cannot account for power compression or non-linearities with the driver, and the fact that it says it is completely safe with that enclosure, I'd feel beyond comfortable with the power being given to the driver.

 

Dan's attention has been brought to this thread, he'll post on it inside of the next day or two.

This is great. I gotta show this to the dealer. Jlaine, can't thank you enough. So, Dan? What's the word?

 

[DanWiggins 10+ year member]

Hi all,

What Josh says is right; he's got it right about the power handling thing. We list the RMS power delivered. Note too, that if you use a 4 KW amp, but only use 800W you're still OK. It's when you start to really pour on the power (above what we list) that you get into trouble.

And Loyd? Ain't no way I'm gonna do an eating contest against you... You're one big boy! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif It was great to meet you, too, and that Tumult looks REALLY good above your head...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Dan Wiggins

Adire Audio

 

[bumpin_blazer 5,000+ posts]

wow someone arguing against a certified adire dealer and someone who i've never had help from personally b/c i have yet to afford adire driver's but is one sharp cookie as jlaine is. anyway, i think that's hella cool to get dan wiggins and jlaine on your side for this one i'd like to see what the "expert" who is building your box says.

adam

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Hope that puts your concerns at rest BonusBobo.

If there are any more questions, just throw them out and we'll try to wrap this up for you.

 

[BonusBobo 10+ year member]

Originally posted by jlaine Hope that puts your concerns at rest BonusBobo.

B]

 

Oh, it definitely does. Thanks a lot, all of you, especially Jlaine and Dan Wiggins.