I could give the xxx plenty of room for a ported box (and pay someone 10 bucks for the design - too lazy) and tune it way down, 25ish. I guess when I come around to buying, I'll do what's a better deal, or just get shivas. I origionally was hoping to stay under 300 on subs and if I can buy used I will... I might just end up with shivas though depending on how much I can spend at the time.