What is?

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Ahhh, the good old “I banged your dead mom” jokes. Almost as comical as when you tell people they should kill themselves. Great fun.

“My death experience was only part of the equation. I think you’re using that an excuse, when you really don’t want to know, which is up to you. And just fyi, like always, you can’t escape your body’s physical death, but you don’t die, so it would be wise understand the consequences of your actions while you’re alive here.”

So you admit that you are not wise, and that you’ll only do good here if others do good here first.
Noted.

You’re just mad, because you don’t have any good mom jokes.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Ive seen plenty and even posted awhile ago a more recent study of nearly 20,000 people that shows if you are vaxed or not the difference between viral load/ shedding or whatever you like to call it there was no difference. As far as symptoms go, I think it depends on the person and isn’t really something you can accurately measure, at least not yet.

Everything I've read shows that VL is reduced with Alpha and Delta for sure (vaxxed or natural immunity). Omicron circumvented both vaxxed and natural immunity, thus the need for a booster although Omicron is weaker variant that we shouldn't alter our lives to live with. Most the studies I've seen indicate lower VL with Omicron. One of the issues here is studies are based on positive tests, so we're missing a whole population that were barely or asymptomatic for comparison.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

It doesn't have to be 100% mortality rate to know that the vaxxed population faired better than the unvaxxed. I don't know how you can say we don't know how the vaccinated would have a faired without the vaccines, there are over 200m vaxxed Americans and a little shy of 100m unvaxxed Americans. If you ask me that's a pretty good sample size for comparison. Additionally, the vaxxed population was more likely to have comorbidities.

Impossible conversation because both you and Rob are of the mindset that the vaccine is 100% effective and that is how the two of you are speaking. 100% mortality rate and I could see your arguments that those unvaccinated would be worse off than the vaccinated. But that simply isn't the case. Who cares though. Almost nobody is catching COVID now. I am pretty sure you all can thank those of us who did not get the vaccine and built our immunity naturally. Had we got the vaccines the virus would have kept mutating through each booster and would have remained around longer. You are welcome you ungrateful bastards.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

100% safe and effective

“Researchers followed a group of 40 patients aged 12 to 18 for up to one year after the children were diagnosed with myocarditis, or heart inflammation, following vaccination with one of the messenger RNA shots from Pfizer or Moderna. They performed a series of tests, including echocardiograms.

Cardiac magnetic resonance imaging, or cardiac MRIs, was performed on 39 of the 40 patients. Abnormal results came in for 26 of those who were imaged, including 19 who had late gadolinium enhancement, or signs of scarring.

The patients with abnormal results returned for follow-up cardiac MRIs at least five months after the initial tests and 15, or 58 percent, had residual late gadolinium enhancement (LGE). The one patient without an initial scan also had mild late gadolinium enhancement when scanned during a follow-up visit.”

Heart-Scarring Observed In Children Months After COVID-19 Vaccination: Study | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Impossible conversation because both you and Rob are of the mindset that the vaccine is 100% effective and that is how the two of you are speaking.

That's not correct. I've never claimed 100% efficacy for this vax or any other. In fact, every study I've ever referenced shows that there is not 100% efficacy. YOU however, have stated over and over that the vax has no efficacy AT ALL.
Your complete denial of reality and your struggle to claim reality itself has been faked for nefarious means, is what makes conversation impossible with you.

100% mortality rate and I could see your arguments that those unvaccinated would be worse off than the vaccinated. But that simply isn't the case. Who cares though. Almost nobody is catching COVID now.

It simply IS the case that the unvaccinated were worse off. The statistics prove it. The evidence proves it. But you care about neither simply because they contradict your chosen narrative that the vax was 100% ineffective.

I am pretty sure you all can thank those of us who did not get the vaccine and built our immunity naturally. Had we got the vaccines the virus would have kept mutating through each booster and would have remained around longer. You are welcome you ungrateful bastards.

Sardonic humor disregarded, this show you have absolutely no clue about the timelines of the virus, and how natural immunity works.
But at least we know more about what you don't know, and why you argue along the lines you do.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Impossible conversation because both you and Rob are of the mindset that the vaccine is 100% effective and that is how the two of you are speaking. 100% mortality rate and I could see your arguments that those unvaccinated would be worse off than the vaccinated. But that simply isn't the case. Who cares though. Almost nobody is catching COVID now. I am pretty sure you all can thank those of us who did not get the vaccine and built our immunity naturally. Had we got the vaccines the virus would have kept mutating through each booster and would have remained around longer. You are welcome you ungrateful bastards.

I've never ever said the vaccine is 100% effective. I guess we can write of just about all vaccines since there aren't many viruses with a 100% mortality rate and as a biologist you would know that a virus with a 100% mortality rate would basically kill itself off by being too infectious. I can thank everybody who didn't get vaxxed that we're reached herd immunity - get clue. And if you're going to credit the vaccine for causing the mutations, then why haven't seen the "thanks vaxxed people for causing the omicron vax?"

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

It simply IS the case that the unvaccinated were worse off

Ok...then show proof that individual A's symptoms were lessen because of the vaccine...

That should be easy enough for ya Robbo...

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Ok...then show proof that individual A's symptoms were lessen because of the vaccine...

That should be easy enough for ya Robbo...

No it's not easy, it's impossible. OTOH, I can show you that the 200+ million people who were vaxxed faired better than 100m unvaxxed people easily enough.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

No it's not easy, it's impossible. OTOH, I can show you that the 200+ million people who were vaxxed faired better than 100m unvaxxed people easily enough.

How can that be proven? The effects of covid varied from non-existent to severe. So how can it be "proven" the vax was the difference maker in the severity of symptoms?

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Ok...then show proof that individual A's symptoms were lessen because of the vaccine...

That should be easy enough for ya Robbo...

OK. Show proof that individual B would still not have died had they not been wearing their seatbelt in that car crash.
Show us proof that individual C would still have beaten the cancer naturally if the chemo didn't exist.
Show us the proof that individual D would have gotten over their headache just as fast without the Tylenol.
Show us the proof that local bar Z would have the same zero-armed-robbery rate if it wasn't the local "cop bar".

Did you skip statistics, probability, correlation, and causation when you were in school?
Or did they just substitute your one hour/week of CCD classes at the seminary for those lessons?

 

[djdilliodon!]

How can that be proven? The effects of covid varied from non-existent to severe. So how can it be "proven" the vax was the difference maker in the severity of symptoms?

Those that took it faired better. That means themselves which means it’s something you take for your own personal benefit. This is the part that some who are vaxed just don’t want to believe and I guess it’s cause they want to say I did it for others cause I’m a great person. They may have thought that in the beginning as it was being peddled that way but we know that isn’t the truth anymore. The CDC never mentions this, it isn’t even listed as a benefit. The benefits are decreased risk of death, hospitalization, long covid. Not spreading it or becoming infected. Those that fair better an extreme amount are 65 years or older or have pre existing health conditions. The numbers are so low for people younger it’s pointless.

 

[djdilliodon!]

OK. Show proof that individual B would still not have died had they not been wearing their seatbelt in that car crash.
Show us proof that individual C would still have beaten the cancer naturally if the chemo didn't exist.
Show us the proof that individual D would have gotten over their headache just as fast without the Tylenol.
Show us the proof that local bar Z would have the same zero-armed-robbery rate if it wasn't the local "cop bar".

Did you skip statistics, probability, correlation, and causation when you were in school?
Or did they just substitute your one hour/week of CCD classes at the seminary for those lessons?

It depends where that cop bar is . If it was in Portland, San Francisco, or Chicago the robbery rate would be exactly the same

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

How can that be proven? The effects of covid varied from non-existent to severe. So how can it be "proven" the vax was the difference maker in the severity of symptoms?

Because I have sample sizes of ~200m vs 100m and can compare the outcomes between the two.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

OK. Show proof that individual B would still not have died had they not been wearing their seatbelt in that car crash.
Show us proof that individual C would still have beaten the cancer naturally if the chemo didn't exist.
Show us the proof that individual D would have gotten over their headache just as fast without the Tylenol.
Show us the proof that local bar Z would have the same zero-armed-robbery rate if it wasn't the local "cop bar".

Did you skip statistics, probability, correlation, and causation when you were in school?
Or did they just substitute your one hour/week of CCD classes at the seminary for those lessons?

Yep seatbelts are covid are one in the same

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Because I have sample sizes of ~200m vs 100m and can compare the outcomes between the two.

Again...the variation in symptom severity is great enough that even generalizing with statistics doesn't really prove the whether there was a change in outcome with the vax.

It's very average at best preventing getting covid...it doesn't stop transmission...both of which were touted as reason to get vax...now it's to reduce severity but the only way to "prove" is generalizations...

There's a 1% chance I'll fall off my porch...so every 100th time I go out onto my porch I'll fall off right? Or will every 100th person that goes onto their porch will fall off?