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Underpowering subs will kill them?
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<blockquote data-quote="geolemon" data-source="post: 325612" data-attributes="member: 547749"><p>There are many potential causes though.</p><p></p><p>Clipping might <em>or might not</em> be one of them... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif</p><p></p><p>You could clip the heck out of an amp, and not cause any heat issues. It depends on how large the <em>resulting</em> effective power going to the subwoofer is.</p><p></p><p>Think of the "area under the curve" (or over the curve, for the negative halves of the waves //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif):</p><p></p><p>With a sine wave of a certain amplitude, you have a certain amount of power, based on the area under the curve.</p><p></p><p>When you begin to clip the wave, inherently the amplitude remains the same - but it starts to widen out, the top being flattened out right at that max-amplitude value, morphing into a square wave, the more you clip the signal.</p><p></p><p>If you consider one half of a sine wave to be parabolic, and one half of a square wave to be... well, square ...if you calculate the total area under the square (both waves being the same frequency and amplitude), you'll see the square has much more area under it.</p><p></p><p>If you want to think of it more in terms of duration, it might make more intuitive sense as to why this matters:</p><p></p><p>A drawing of a sine wave represents time on the X-axis, and amplitude [of it's power] on the Y-axis.</p><p></p><p>If you follow just the positive half of the wave for purposes of simplification, with a sine wave there's a progressive rise in the amount of current flowing until it momentarily reaches that amplitude peak, and then it progressively decreases again until it gets down to the 0 line again.</p><p></p><p>With a square wave, it rises sharply to the maximum amplitude level, and stays there for the majority of the duration of the wave, and then sharply drops back down to the 0 line again.</p><p></p><p>So, with an amplifier that's supposed to put out the sub's rated thermal powerhandling worth of power, when operated properly...</p><p></p><p>It's easy to see how if you clip it then, you could inadvertantly create MORE RMS power than the amp is supposed to give out - and how the distortion would proportionally increase (and how the sub wouldn't be able to use it to increase it's excursion further //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif) - despite the amplitude of the signal remaining the same. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif</p><p></p><p>But if you have an amplifier that is appropriate for your sub/enclosure mechanical limits, but doesn't make as much power as the sub can handle thermally (something like a Brahma in a decent sealed box with an 800 watt amp on it), you could clip the heck out of the amplifier, and still not reach the thermal limits of the sub.</p><p></p><p>My point is, it's a potential cause, but not a direct correlation... and it's only one possible cause. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif</p><p></p><p>* Too much clean power can thermal a sub.</p><p></p><p>* A defective amp could thermal a sub.</p><p></p><p>* Installing electric heaters inside your box could thermal your sub. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif</p><p></p><p>I just think it's important to look at the symptoms, not the causes, because it's the symptoms you need to avoid, not necessarily the activity that <em>in some cases is </em>a cause.</p><p></p><p>People often get this confused, and you end up with a bunch of misunderstood or misapplied "rules of thumb" that are out there, when most of the time it's more practical to understand the thing you want to avoid, and let common sense dictate what you should do to avoid it. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="geolemon, post: 325612, member: 547749"] There are many potential causes though. Clipping might [I]or might not[/I] be one of them... [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif[/IMG] You could clip the heck out of an amp, and not cause any heat issues. It depends on how large the [I]resulting[/I] effective power going to the subwoofer is. Think of the "area under the curve" (or over the curve, for the negative halves of the waves [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif[/IMG]): With a sine wave of a certain amplitude, you have a certain amount of power, based on the area under the curve. When you begin to clip the wave, inherently the amplitude remains the same - but it starts to widen out, the top being flattened out right at that max-amplitude value, morphing into a square wave, the more you clip the signal. If you consider one half of a sine wave to be parabolic, and one half of a square wave to be... well, square ...if you calculate the total area under the square (both waves being the same frequency and amplitude), you'll see the square has much more area under it. If you want to think of it more in terms of duration, it might make more intuitive sense as to why this matters: A drawing of a sine wave represents time on the X-axis, and amplitude [of it's power] on the Y-axis. If you follow just the positive half of the wave for purposes of simplification, with a sine wave there's a progressive rise in the amount of current flowing until it momentarily reaches that amplitude peak, and then it progressively decreases again until it gets down to the 0 line again. With a square wave, it rises sharply to the maximum amplitude level, and stays there for the majority of the duration of the wave, and then sharply drops back down to the 0 line again. So, with an amplifier that's supposed to put out the sub's rated thermal powerhandling worth of power, when operated properly... It's easy to see how if you clip it then, you could inadvertantly create MORE RMS power than the amp is supposed to give out - and how the distortion would proportionally increase (and how the sub wouldn't be able to use it to increase it's excursion further [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif[/IMG]) - despite the amplitude of the signal remaining the same. [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif[/IMG] But if you have an amplifier that is appropriate for your sub/enclosure mechanical limits, but doesn't make as much power as the sub can handle thermally (something like a Brahma in a decent sealed box with an 800 watt amp on it), you could clip the heck out of the amplifier, and still not reach the thermal limits of the sub. My point is, it's a potential cause, but not a direct correlation... and it's only one possible cause. [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif[/IMG] * Too much clean power can thermal a sub. * A defective amp could thermal a sub. * Installing electric heaters inside your box could thermal your sub. [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif[/IMG] I just think it's important to look at the symptoms, not the causes, because it's the symptoms you need to avoid, not necessarily the activity that [I]in some cases is [/I]a cause. People often get this confused, and you end up with a bunch of misunderstood or misapplied "rules of thumb" that are out there, when most of the time it's more practical to understand the thing you want to avoid, and let common sense dictate what you should do to avoid it. [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif[/IMG] [/QUOTE]
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