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<blockquote data-quote="hispls" data-source="post: 8163457" data-attributes="member: 614752">For the record, what did I say that you could possibly read as collectivist?The Constitution for the United States was ratified by representatives of each of the several states.&nbsp;&nbsp; I think you are confusing a REPUBLIC with DEMOCRACY.&nbsp;&nbsp; Democracy always turns to socialism/communism/despotism when the mob realizes they can vote themselves a free lunch.&nbsp; Democracy would also allow the 51% to vote away the rights of the other 49%.Here&#039;s&nbsp; a quote from a time when people were a bit better educated and before we had newspeak:This is precisely the &#039;democracy&#039; of the New Order that we are working so hard to create through our imperialism.&nbsp; &nbsp; &quot;One man, one vote&quot; is NOT part of the founding principals of the United States, but is straight from the communist manifesto.Again, there is no &quot;right&quot; to vote, and if it were up to me I&#039;d be all for a poll tax, mandatory civics classes and proficiency test,&nbsp; IQ tests, literacy tests, and other restrictions before people are allowed to engage in such a potentially dangerous activity.&nbsp;&nbsp; Restricting the ability to vote to only taxpayers is also a fine idea.&nbsp; After all they&#039;re the ones footing the bill.Like it or lump it, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land.&nbsp; It has specific methods included for changes as needed and they&#039;re quite difficult (specifically for the point of not allowing &quot;democracy&quot;).&nbsp;&nbsp; At the end of the day it&#039;s the only document in the history of the world that actually set men free and made them masters of their own government.&nbsp; Nobody alive has actually lived in a time where it was actually adhered to, so I&#039;d strongly suggest RETURNING to it before trying to change it or scrap it.&nbsp; I assure you, when they do scrap it, you will not like what rises from the ashes.Do you really think that if every dope alive had to agree to the terms of this &quot;contract&quot; we would be better off?&nbsp;&nbsp; Have you even read the constitution?&nbsp;&nbsp; Primarily it is concerned with establishing the form of government, limiting the powers thereof, and guaranteeing certain inalienable rights to the people against government restriction.&nbsp;&nbsp; I&#039;m not sure what you really need to dispute about this since the way it&#039;s laid out the Federal Government has jurisdiction over your life almost never.&nbsp; Furthermore, you&#039;re more than welcome to opt out and emigrate to any socialist utopia of your choice if you&#039;re not happy with the way things are set up.Also the civil war was probably the worst outcome for the freedom of Americans.&nbsp; (inb4 slavery.... Confederacy had planned to outlaw it anyway).&nbsp; This was precisely about a state being able to opt out of the union if they weren&#039;t happy with usurpations of federal power.&nbsp; OF course you could make a credible argument that balkanizing North America into a bunch of several states wouldn&#039;t leave us in nearly the position of power we are today.... then you could also make the argument that it&#039;s not doing the common man much good anyway.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="hispls, post: 8163457, member: 614752"] For the record, what did I say that you could possibly read as collectivist? The Constitution for the United States was ratified by representatives of each of the several states. I think you are confusing a REPUBLIC with DEMOCRACY. Democracy always turns to socialism/communism/despotism when the mob realizes they can vote themselves a free lunch. Democracy would also allow the 51% to vote away the rights of the other 49%. Here's a quote from a time when people were a bit better educated and before we had newspeak: This is precisely the 'democracy' of the New Order that we are working so hard to create through our imperialism. "One man, one vote" is NOT part of the founding principals of the United States, but is straight from the communist manifesto. Again, there is no "right" to vote, and if it were up to me I'd be all for a poll tax, mandatory civics classes and proficiency test, IQ tests, literacy tests, and other restrictions before people are allowed to engage in such a potentially dangerous activity. Restricting the ability to vote to only taxpayers is also a fine idea. After all they're the ones footing the bill. Like it or lump it, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land. It has specific methods included for changes as needed and they're quite difficult (specifically for the point of not allowing "democracy"). At the end of the day it's the only document in the history of the world that actually set men free and made them masters of their own government. Nobody alive has actually lived in a time where it was actually adhered to, so I'd strongly suggest RETURNING to it before trying to change it or scrap it. I assure you, when they do scrap it, you will not like what rises from the ashes. Do you really think that if every dope alive had to agree to the terms of this "contract" we would be better off? Have you even read the constitution? Primarily it is concerned with establishing the form of government, limiting the powers thereof, and guaranteeing certain inalienable rights to the people against government restriction. I'm not sure what you really need to dispute about this since the way it's laid out the Federal Government has jurisdiction over your life almost never. Furthermore, you're more than welcome to opt out and emigrate to any socialist utopia of your choice if you're not happy with the way things are set up. Also the civil war was probably the worst outcome for the freedom of Americans. (inb4 slavery.... Confederacy had planned to outlaw it anyway). This was precisely about a state being able to opt out of the union if they weren't happy with usurpations of federal power. OF course you could make a credible argument that balkanizing North America into a bunch of several states wouldn't leave us in nearly the position of power we are today.... then you could also make the argument that it's not doing the common man much good anyway. [/QUOTE]

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