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Switching to Class A/B for Subs?
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<blockquote data-quote="Justintoxicated" data-source="post: 2697536" data-attributes="member: 561240"><p>Ok that’s your definition of SQ, it is SOMEWHAT what I am after as that’s similar setup to what I have now (I’m not going to compete so I could care less what others want), However I would like more bass for some songs since I can EASILY turn it down for others. Sure I didn't replace the 4ga or larger wire to my battery that is about 2-3 feet long. having some electrical knowledge and looking at the difficulty of this I decided it is not worth it. Not THAT much current is lost in a short run of 4 ga. ONLY my interior lights dim, and they would dim with the stock 13 watt Hu as well. Using 0ga wire for the amps only made the problem worse because it gave the stereo path Priority over the interior lights which have more resistance in the wiring. The problem is more likely my 160 amp alternator or stock battery.</p><p></p><p>The only way I can see getting 0ga wire from my alternator is to actually make a second run from the alternator directly to the battery. But because everything is integrated I need to verify that I'm not by passing a voltage regulator when doing it this way. it would be BYPASSING the Distribution / Fuse block for the rest of the truck........I have a feeling it may create OTHER electrical problems since the path to the battery then to the stereo would have precedence over my Engine, airbags brakes etc! So as much as I would like to finish it (I have more wire) it's not possible at this time and I'm not going to completely void my warranty for a stereo system.</p><p></p><p>As for my rear fill you can't hear it anyways, it is simply there so I turn off my amps and still have music outside of the car since my rear doors open up 160 degrees. The rear fill is NOT an issue it is not amped or anything like that.</p><p></p><p>Another 300 on deadening seems excessive since everything ALREADY has 2-3 layers except the ceiling, but I'm going to pickup another roll of BXT for that. A new HU will eventually come but I am very happy with the sound coming from my ECLIPSE 5444....Just wish it hade something other than a 7 band EQ...Just because I don't have money for al these toys now does not mean I don't have any SQ...If you have more money than me then more power to you.</p><p></p><p>After all this system is in a truck and I want EVERYTHING hidden so I'm never going to have perfect imaging and I'm NOT going to move the seat back and to the center of the vehicle. This is not home theater but I want it to sound the best possible within my budget since I can't have HOME THEATER (I rent and I'm not a rich ***** like some people (not pointed at anyone in this thread)) My only stereo is mobile for me. I don't want SPL setup with some ****in DD's and blah blah 2 18" subs etc. I have no need for such things. (nothing wrong with that if you do) I just feel like 95% of people on this forum are more SPL oriented and switching from class A/B to D will probably not make any difference for them. But I want my bass to sound a s clean as possible since I'm already limited to small subs and location and down firing them with limited clearance.</p><p></p><p>Now the person I was speaking with has been into Car Audio for like 40+ years. His amp comparison I believe was simply swapping between both arc amps but I will clarify it with him. He has done MANY installs and specifically told me he will never use class D amplifiers of any brand again. He went so far as to recommend that if the ARCXXK 2500 does not fit to just go with another line of amps that makes an A/B that will. He does not want to see me using a 1500XXK....</p><p></p><p>So squeak what exactly is your definition of properly testing A/B vs D if changing the amp and using the same settings and the adjusting for the SAME power is not enough? To me that IS a proper test. If someone has tried this several times using the same ARC amps then let me know of a better person’s advice to take on this matter. Maybe the 1500XXK just sucks balls and there is some other magical reason, despite it being made for sub duty, I don't know but I am listening. I need to understand why someone who would be so against class D's and I know there are others out there as well.</p><p></p><p>Here is a segment of the mail I received.</p><p></p><p>"Justin, In plain and simple English, they have no F'ing clue, most</p><p></p><p>people do not. I have tested dozens of amps and D class sub amps on an</p><p></p><p>SQ system always lack a great deal, even the Arc and it was not a cheap</p><p></p><p>amp in the least.</p><p></p><p>There are those that think an Alpine 9835 sounds just as good as an</p><p></p><p>Eclipse 8443 or 8053, there is a world of difference.</p><p></p><p>( I have owned $2,500 HUs, $2,500 DAC's, Rainbow Reference speakers, etc)"</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Justintoxicated, post: 2697536, member: 561240"] Ok that’s your definition of SQ, it is SOMEWHAT what I am after as that’s similar setup to what I have now (I’m not going to compete so I could care less what others want), However I would like more bass for some songs since I can EASILY turn it down for others. Sure I didn't replace the 4ga or larger wire to my battery that is about 2-3 feet long. having some electrical knowledge and looking at the difficulty of this I decided it is not worth it. Not THAT much current is lost in a short run of 4 ga. ONLY my interior lights dim, and they would dim with the stock 13 watt Hu as well. Using 0ga wire for the amps only made the problem worse because it gave the stereo path Priority over the interior lights which have more resistance in the wiring. The problem is more likely my 160 amp alternator or stock battery. The only way I can see getting 0ga wire from my alternator is to actually make a second run from the alternator directly to the battery. But because everything is integrated I need to verify that I'm not by passing a voltage regulator when doing it this way. it would be BYPASSING the Distribution / Fuse block for the rest of the truck........I have a feeling it may create OTHER electrical problems since the path to the battery then to the stereo would have precedence over my Engine, airbags brakes etc! So as much as I would like to finish it (I have more wire) it's not possible at this time and I'm not going to completely void my warranty for a stereo system. As for my rear fill you can't hear it anyways, it is simply there so I turn off my amps and still have music outside of the car since my rear doors open up 160 degrees. The rear fill is NOT an issue it is not amped or anything like that. Another 300 on deadening seems excessive since everything ALREADY has 2-3 layers except the ceiling, but I'm going to pickup another roll of BXT for that. A new HU will eventually come but I am very happy with the sound coming from my ECLIPSE 5444....Just wish it hade something other than a 7 band EQ...Just because I don't have money for al these toys now does not mean I don't have any SQ...If you have more money than me then more power to you. After all this system is in a truck and I want EVERYTHING hidden so I'm never going to have perfect imaging and I'm NOT going to move the seat back and to the center of the vehicle. This is not home theater but I want it to sound the best possible within my budget since I can't have HOME THEATER (I rent and I'm not a rich ***** like some people (not pointed at anyone in this thread)) My only stereo is mobile for me. I don't want SPL setup with some ****in DD's and blah blah 2 18" subs etc. I have no need for such things. (nothing wrong with that if you do) I just feel like 95% of people on this forum are more SPL oriented and switching from class A/B to D will probably not make any difference for them. But I want my bass to sound a s clean as possible since I'm already limited to small subs and location and down firing them with limited clearance. Now the person I was speaking with has been into Car Audio for like 40+ years. His amp comparison I believe was simply swapping between both arc amps but I will clarify it with him. He has done MANY installs and specifically told me he will never use class D amplifiers of any brand again. He went so far as to recommend that if the ARCXXK 2500 does not fit to just go with another line of amps that makes an A/B that will. He does not want to see me using a 1500XXK.... So squeak what exactly is your definition of properly testing A/B vs D if changing the amp and using the same settings and the adjusting for the SAME power is not enough? To me that IS a proper test. If someone has tried this several times using the same ARC amps then let me know of a better person’s advice to take on this matter. Maybe the 1500XXK just sucks balls and there is some other magical reason, despite it being made for sub duty, I don't know but I am listening. I need to understand why someone who would be so against class D's and I know there are others out there as well. Here is a segment of the mail I received. "Justin, In plain and simple English, they have no F'ing clue, most people do not. I have tested dozens of amps and D class sub amps on an SQ system always lack a great deal, even the Arc and it was not a cheap amp in the least. There are those that think an Alpine 9835 sounds just as good as an Eclipse 8443 or 8053, there is a world of difference. ( I have owned $2,500 HUs, $2,500 DAC's, Rainbow Reference speakers, etc)" [/QUOTE]
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