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General Car Audio
Sound dampener/deadener secrets
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<blockquote data-quote="Rudy" data-source="post: 7664467" data-attributes="member: 568035"><p>Sure looks like Don since "CLD Tile" is a proprietary product name and because I remember writing the quote //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif</p><p></p><p>I approach quotes like this in a few basic ways. If it's for an SPL system, I usually suggest that sound deadening isn't likely to be a good solution. If it's for a quieter ride or a more SQ kind of project I have a pretty consistent approach. I usually preface quotes like this with: "Here's what I would do -". I never really explain that, so this is a good opportunity.</p><p></p><p>My goal is primarily to make the vehicle a lot quieter, without going crazy. I try to cut along the line of diminishing returns. As an example, I advocate lining the door inner skin with barrier materials. If you have door mounted speakers, there performance will be increased because the barrier isolates the front and rear waves. Inner skin placement is almost always best for blocking noise intrusion because it puts noise entering through the front, rear top and bottom of the doors behind the barrier. Some additional gains can be had by also lining the outer door skin. This also makes it harder to hear door mounted speakers outside the car. I never recommend this additional step unless the potential customer specifically asks for a benefit it provides or specifically tells me they want to go over the top.</p><p></p><p>A similar case is CCF and MLV on the roof. A barrier is there to block noise hitting the vehicle in a straight line. There aren't enough noise sources directly overhead to justify this. I did have one customer who spent all day driving his truck on airport runways and a roof barrier made sense for him.</p><p></p><p>Something that pushes the price up and has caused me some concern is the inclusion of 3M Thinsulate Acoustic. I started using this on roofs and was amazed at the results. It's an incredibly effective absorber of middle to high frequency noise. Using it makes a very noticeable reduction in noise levels. These are texts a customer sent me as he was installing it:</p><p></p><p>June 21, 11:03 AM</p><p></p><p>Got the roof liner back on with the thinsulate and it seems to not only help with external noise but also absorbs reflected sound inside the car.</p><p></p><p>June 21, 11:16 AM</p><p></p><p>What an awesome product.</p><p></p><p>June 21, 4:54 PM</p><p></p><p>my car is seriously like the fortress of solitude.</p><p></p><p>June 21, 4:55 AM</p><p></p><p>it is so quiet inside it's unbelievable.</p><p></p><p>Brandon</p><p></p><p>Now I've started using it to line door trim panels - as has Acura //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif It's an amazing decoupler and soaks up even more noise. It's also an excellent thermal insulator, so that';s a nice side benefit. You can get good results without it, but the results have been better every time I've used it so I include it by default.</p><p></p><p>All of this trouble to reduce noise levels goes beyond just having a quieter vehicle, not that having a quiet vehicle isn't really nice and the sole objective of many of my customers. Some of my customers are competitors and have special needs. The vast majority just want to listen to good music when they are driving. That's where the noise comes from. Your stereo will probably sound quite good when you're parked with the engine off after just adding some vibration damper.</p><p></p><p>When you're moving the noise coming in interferes with the music. Say you're watching TV and your wife or girlfriend is sitting next to you talking about something that doesn't interest you at all. That chatter makes it hard to concentrate on what you';re watching. Noise does the same thing to music. You turn the volume up to cover the noise and push your sound system into distortion and end up listening at a higher level than you want. I am 100% convinced that the single best thing you can do for musical fidelity is to reduce noise levels. Doesn't matter if it's a stock system or much more. Doesn't matter if you like it quiet or loud. Music sounds better with out the junk noise mixed in.</p><p></p><p>I never know how my quotes are going to be met. I get about as many: "That's way more than I expected" as I get: "That's a lot less than I expected". I believe in economizing by reducing the areas being treated instead of pulling a layer back from everything. The doors are generally the best bang for the buck. If you have an aggressive exhaust, the floor and trunk or floor and back wall in a pickup make sense as the first step.</p><p></p><p>After that I'll usually go to the roof since it's a large, resonant panel directly over your head. I'm reluctant not to put Thinsulate on the roof because it is so effective and the roof is usually hard enough to get to that I don't want to go there twice. Eliminating the Thinsalate from the doors is a reasonable cost saving measure - especially since it's relatively easy to go back in and add it later if you want.</p><p></p><p>One last thing to consider is the amount of work involved in a project like this. It's not easy. I can treat most vehicle in one really long and really hard day but I have done it many times. Most people should expect to put 2-3 days into the job. It doesn't have to be all at once, but expect that much time. You are basically rebuilding a vehicle to do something it wasn't designed to do. It's not something you want to do more times than you need to.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rudy, post: 7664467, member: 568035"] Sure looks like Don since "CLD Tile" is a proprietary product name and because I remember writing the quote [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif[/IMG] I approach quotes like this in a few basic ways. If it's for an SPL system, I usually suggest that sound deadening isn't likely to be a good solution. If it's for a quieter ride or a more SQ kind of project I have a pretty consistent approach. I usually preface quotes like this with: "Here's what I would do -". I never really explain that, so this is a good opportunity. My goal is primarily to make the vehicle a lot quieter, without going crazy. I try to cut along the line of diminishing returns. As an example, I advocate lining the door inner skin with barrier materials. If you have door mounted speakers, there performance will be increased because the barrier isolates the front and rear waves. Inner skin placement is almost always best for blocking noise intrusion because it puts noise entering through the front, rear top and bottom of the doors behind the barrier. Some additional gains can be had by also lining the outer door skin. This also makes it harder to hear door mounted speakers outside the car. I never recommend this additional step unless the potential customer specifically asks for a benefit it provides or specifically tells me they want to go over the top. A similar case is CCF and MLV on the roof. A barrier is there to block noise hitting the vehicle in a straight line. There aren't enough noise sources directly overhead to justify this. I did have one customer who spent all day driving his truck on airport runways and a roof barrier made sense for him. Something that pushes the price up and has caused me some concern is the inclusion of 3M Thinsulate Acoustic. I started using this on roofs and was amazed at the results. It's an incredibly effective absorber of middle to high frequency noise. Using it makes a very noticeable reduction in noise levels. These are texts a customer sent me as he was installing it: June 21, 11:03 AM Got the roof liner back on with the thinsulate and it seems to not only help with external noise but also absorbs reflected sound inside the car. June 21, 11:16 AM What an awesome product. June 21, 4:54 PM my car is seriously like the fortress of solitude. June 21, 4:55 AM it is so quiet inside it's unbelievable. Brandon Now I've started using it to line door trim panels - as has Acura [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif[/IMG] It's an amazing decoupler and soaks up even more noise. It's also an excellent thermal insulator, so that';s a nice side benefit. You can get good results without it, but the results have been better every time I've used it so I include it by default. All of this trouble to reduce noise levels goes beyond just having a quieter vehicle, not that having a quiet vehicle isn't really nice and the sole objective of many of my customers. Some of my customers are competitors and have special needs. The vast majority just want to listen to good music when they are driving. That's where the noise comes from. Your stereo will probably sound quite good when you're parked with the engine off after just adding some vibration damper. When you're moving the noise coming in interferes with the music. Say you're watching TV and your wife or girlfriend is sitting next to you talking about something that doesn't interest you at all. That chatter makes it hard to concentrate on what you';re watching. Noise does the same thing to music. You turn the volume up to cover the noise and push your sound system into distortion and end up listening at a higher level than you want. I am 100% convinced that the single best thing you can do for musical fidelity is to reduce noise levels. Doesn't matter if it's a stock system or much more. Doesn't matter if you like it quiet or loud. Music sounds better with out the junk noise mixed in. I never know how my quotes are going to be met. I get about as many: "That's way more than I expected" as I get: "That's a lot less than I expected". I believe in economizing by reducing the areas being treated instead of pulling a layer back from everything. The doors are generally the best bang for the buck. If you have an aggressive exhaust, the floor and trunk or floor and back wall in a pickup make sense as the first step. After that I'll usually go to the roof since it's a large, resonant panel directly over your head. I'm reluctant not to put Thinsulate on the roof because it is so effective and the roof is usually hard enough to get to that I don't want to go there twice. Eliminating the Thinsalate from the doors is a reasonable cost saving measure - especially since it's relatively easy to go back in and add it later if you want. One last thing to consider is the amount of work involved in a project like this. It's not easy. I can treat most vehicle in one really long and really hard day but I have done it many times. Most people should expect to put 2-3 days into the job. It doesn't have to be all at once, but expect that much time. You are basically rebuilding a vehicle to do something it wasn't designed to do. It's not something you want to do more times than you need to. [/QUOTE]
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