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Car Audio Discussion
General Car Audio
Sound All Around vs Upfront staging
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<blockquote data-quote="T3mpest" data-source="post: 8160758" data-attributes="member: 560148"><p>Things that are louder always tend to sound "better" at first that's why you can't always trust that. There is no other type of "staging". Throwing speakers all over the car is definetly easier, but it does not create any staging. That's not how stereo was EVER intended to be used. (stereo requires 70 degrees of seperation to be true stereo) Stereo is only recorded with 2 channels a left and a right. You only need one of each playing fullrange, down low you can get away with mono. Putting more speakers behind you playing the same frequencies as everything else isnt' realistic. When you do that, your creating 2 seperate sound sources. Now instead of hearing one singer, your hearing 2 singers one behind you, one in front, the one in front singing slighty sooner than the one in back (time delay because rear speakers are further away). Adding additional drivers not only destroys staging, but the drives also aren't in acoustic phase at certain frequencies which makes the frequency response more ragged, albiet louder since you have more speakers. (hence the "it sounds better if you don't know what it supposed to sound like)</p><p></p><p>In my last car my favorite demo was Alice in Chain's unplugged. When Layne comes out in the beginning of nutshell you can literally hear pull his chair out and it has a slight depth cue as he pulls it up. You can also tell the depth of each person on stage, drums directly behind the singer (just onto my hood) Layne is right at the winshield glass. Jerry on Guitar to the right, right by the pillar, Bass on the left, just short of the left pillar. I've ran it off my computer with video at the same time, it's a neat effect. I have one SQ track with a gospel choir, you can literally count how many people are doing finger snaps by their locations. Instead of just hearing the snaps, you "see" them. Your not going to get that kind of realism by putting speakers all over your car. No it's not like being a band member, but it's alot closer than your idea. Again, your creating too many sound sources for ANYTHING to soudn "real" Your just destroying the original recording. A band plays in front of you, yes you can hear sounds from all sides, but that's reflections that are also being picked up by the mic and fed back into the mix, and a car has more natural reflections than just about any venue.</p><p></p><p>Most of the time people find rear fill sounds better because it gives them extra midbass or sub bass. They have little 6.5's in the doors trying to run them to 60hz or lower and yes, when you add a 6x9 or other speaker, you can help fill in gaps that exist. Regardless it's still a bandaid to help frequency response and when you hear a car that's setup properly because it didn't need a bandaid, it changes peoples mind real quick. I never had anyone set in my car and say it needed "more speakers". Heck most people didnt' believe I wasn't running a speaker in the dash, or even a speaker above knee level, let alone just 1 set.</p><p></p><p>Lastly, staging is NOT centered in front of the listener, a bit of ignorance on your part. Proper staging is center of the car is center stage. Only way the stage can be the same size on the left and right, again, if you've never heard a car that does it, kind of a foreign idea, but it's correct. A car with proper staging will sound more real than you'd imagine, especially if you have dynamics to back it up a live performance (even less cars can do this than can get staging right). I didn't mention, but the snares on the AIC recordings would make you blink and you can feel the midbass in your chest, and it plays it without audible distortion.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="T3mpest, post: 8160758, member: 560148"] Things that are louder always tend to sound "better" at first that's why you can't always trust that. There is no other type of "staging". Throwing speakers all over the car is definetly easier, but it does not create any staging. That's not how stereo was EVER intended to be used. (stereo requires 70 degrees of seperation to be true stereo) Stereo is only recorded with 2 channels a left and a right. You only need one of each playing fullrange, down low you can get away with mono. Putting more speakers behind you playing the same frequencies as everything else isnt' realistic. When you do that, your creating 2 seperate sound sources. Now instead of hearing one singer, your hearing 2 singers one behind you, one in front, the one in front singing slighty sooner than the one in back (time delay because rear speakers are further away). Adding additional drivers not only destroys staging, but the drives also aren't in acoustic phase at certain frequencies which makes the frequency response more ragged, albiet louder since you have more speakers. (hence the "it sounds better if you don't know what it supposed to sound like) In my last car my favorite demo was Alice in Chain's unplugged. When Layne comes out in the beginning of nutshell you can literally hear pull his chair out and it has a slight depth cue as he pulls it up. You can also tell the depth of each person on stage, drums directly behind the singer (just onto my hood) Layne is right at the winshield glass. Jerry on Guitar to the right, right by the pillar, Bass on the left, just short of the left pillar. I've ran it off my computer with video at the same time, it's a neat effect. I have one SQ track with a gospel choir, you can literally count how many people are doing finger snaps by their locations. Instead of just hearing the snaps, you "see" them. Your not going to get that kind of realism by putting speakers all over your car. No it's not like being a band member, but it's alot closer than your idea. Again, your creating too many sound sources for ANYTHING to soudn "real" Your just destroying the original recording. A band plays in front of you, yes you can hear sounds from all sides, but that's reflections that are also being picked up by the mic and fed back into the mix, and a car has more natural reflections than just about any venue. Most of the time people find rear fill sounds better because it gives them extra midbass or sub bass. They have little 6.5's in the doors trying to run them to 60hz or lower and yes, when you add a 6x9 or other speaker, you can help fill in gaps that exist. Regardless it's still a bandaid to help frequency response and when you hear a car that's setup properly because it didn't need a bandaid, it changes peoples mind real quick. I never had anyone set in my car and say it needed "more speakers". Heck most people didnt' believe I wasn't running a speaker in the dash, or even a speaker above knee level, let alone just 1 set. Lastly, staging is NOT centered in front of the listener, a bit of ignorance on your part. Proper staging is center of the car is center stage. Only way the stage can be the same size on the left and right, again, if you've never heard a car that does it, kind of a foreign idea, but it's correct. A car with proper staging will sound more real than you'd imagine, especially if you have dynamics to back it up a live performance (even less cars can do this than can get staging right). I didn't mention, but the snares on the AIC recordings would make you blink and you can feel the midbass in your chest, and it plays it without audible distortion. [/QUOTE]
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Sound All Around vs Upfront staging
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