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Message: <blockquote data-quote="audiolife" data-source="post: 961499" data-attributes="member: 541383">just because i dont care to get all detailed, really makes no difference to me. i already been through it and i tell people where to look. if they care to read so be it if not they keep asking about "problems" when the answer to alot of those problems still exists in the readings they wont want to read because its easier to be told rather than learn it. most of the cars that had 3 ways back in the day as i mentioned sometime ago often unhooked the midbass speakers in a comp. one person in particular was jerry zeigler. (he had an all pioneer odr set up with all image dynamics speakers (horns)in a black honda crx) he even back then had the ability with the odr to tune in or out about anything he wanted but couldnt ever get the kicks and doors to sound right together. very few cars i have heard pulled it off with out a hitch. larry chehsneir (i know im spelling this wrong) pulled it off with his caddy it had  some non symetrical speaker placements to offset some of the "confusion" he used usd horns pioneer odr and a host of other speakers. its claim to fame (at least to me) was where he had his sub (passenger side almost up into the kick but on the floor/firewall). i talked to him and jerry quite a bit as they used to judge my car often and we talked about how to compensate back and forth but clarity WAS always an issue. you never want anything clouded or pulling back and forth to not have an exact location (which is what happens when you add speakers) between the 2 of those guys i know they have won at least 4 world championships and jerry was his own installer and larry had probabably without a dout one of the top five installers in the world working on his car (i forget his name but not his face he won a grandmaster world championship in his own right) to me about the only guy i know of that tackles these types of issues and does it extremely well is scott bawalda. his "way" of doing it isnt how shall we say the norm because he basically developed his own scheme and i know he does lectures over it as well. case in point though 99.9% of the people who read through here arent and dont want to go to that extreme but when building a PROPPER set up i think superpositioning should be learned and used as a tool as it will effect the system. as with your horns it follows along those VERY SAME LINES as do the speakers i run.i just went to ft wayne with a friend of mine and he heard my new set up as well as the last set up with my 3 ways. he knew all my sound comes from up front but absolutely couldnt believe my only speakers were mounted low in the kicks. he kept looking at my dash saying "there is something in there" fact of the matter is there isnt. i then played the seven drum track material from my cd 102 track 6. it travels at the corners past both pillars of my truck it also has a definate center and 2 very definate mid center locations that doesnt "drop" in height as the track flows from left to right (something my 3 way set up couldnt do reguardless of were i put the mid tweet and putting the mid in the door). maybe even better than my horns did. you  go adding speakers to that that arent aimed exact and tuned exact it will pull the stage either farther left right up or down. reason it would do this is because its FIGHTING with what is there and also working with what is there at intervals that arent consistant. now tell me what would you rather work with a frequency response problem that is by far easier to remody or a phase shift, time and location problem with still somewhat of a frequency response issue? that really effects clarity as much as a singer singing out of time in a chorus or a drum section playing out of sync with a symphony.  most peple want something that they know they can get put in and have a fairly easy time of getting it set up well  and adding speakers isnt an easy way to improve a system at all. my first installer took the more is better approach in his comp system. he had 40 (not a typo) mid bass, midrange and tweeter speakers in his reagal with 2 12 or 15" subs (had all 4 subs going before he started tweeking). took him 3 years to get it right and it netted him a third place in usac finals. it sounded really good by that time too but you ever think really how many people are going to want to mess with a set up for literially hundreds and thousands of hours? most people would get pissed if it took more than a day. i know this seems extreme but if you look at it for what it really is and know about how speakers themselves work and how to mess with responses (getting them to play deeper or higher) i think it becomes rather obvious which road to pursue doesnt it? there is how many different cars trucks and suvs out now? all of them are totally different so each one posses its own issues with doing the right set up but can you argue against doing the things that are more easily obtained to get a better or as good of end result? a 3 way speaker set up front stage in an easy open set up on paper 9 times out of ten looks alot better  than a 2 way set up but reality says you arent going to be installing the said speaker sets in or on any kind of paper. i sold quiet a few 3 way sets in my day especially in bmw's and benzs and i can about draw a line right down the middle to the satisfaction of the customer ( not that it was bad) vs a 2 way kick panel set up but the end result being worth the cost and time into the actual set up. im also not cutting down on the guys that do get good/great results with going the 3 way route but rather saying its not as simple as most people think. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif</blockquote>

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