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<blockquote data-quote="keep_hope_alive" data-source="post: 7083289" data-attributes="member: 576029">i&#039;ve been busy, not avoiding this.&nbsp; i think we can bring this back to a civil conversation.&nbsp; you bring up excellent points but i still see that you are missing some of what i&#039;m trying to say.&nbsp; the problem with educated people having a discussion about technical concepts is that we get caught up in semantics and it takes some bantering before we realize we&#039;re trying to say the same thing.I fully grasp these concepts.&nbsp;&nbsp; Why do you assume I do not?&nbsp; &nbsp; These go without saying and do not contradict anything i&#039;ve tried to say.My argument is false if, and only if, there is no resistance between ground points on the chassis of an automobile in use.&nbsp; When the car is off, we don&#039;t care.&nbsp; When the battery is disconnected, we don&#039;t care.we were talking about the validity and purpose of fusing grounds in an automobile.&nbsp; &nbsp; that was the purpose of this thread and we all agree on this.&nbsp; I got on a side topic regarding noise as a result of resistance in the chassis and that caused disagreement, i think, because of interpretations of&nbsp; my use of the phrase &quot;difference in potential&quot;.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; maybe the term &quot;electrical potential difference&quot; sits with you better?&nbsp;&nbsp; if you prefer different terminology let me know.there is resistance between each battery terminal and the load.&nbsp; even if the load is connected directly to the battery - there is resistance in the connections.&nbsp; &nbsp; the voltage between terminals at the load is less than the voltage between terminals at the battery - how much less depends on current and resistance of each path.&nbsp; simple ohm&#039;s law.&nbsp; work is done as charge &quot;flows&quot; from point A to point B. this means there is an electrical potential difference between any two points of either path.&nbsp;&nbsp; all this is measurable.&nbsp; we shouldn&#039;t be arguing any of this.yes, the vehicle chassis is essentially a giant bus bar.&nbsp;&nbsp; a buss bar has resistance per unit length.&nbsp; bus bars have voltage drop while in use.all of the grounds points have a electrical potential difference between them while the automobile is in use.&nbsp; the chassis not a perfect conductor without resistance.&nbsp; there is resistance between all connections.most of the electrical components in the car are not purely resistive anymore.&nbsp; modern electronics place noise back on the electrical system - common with any non-linear power supply.&nbsp; switching power supplies, regulated power supplies, all of these generate electrical noise, and not all are properly filtered due to cost.&nbsp;&nbsp; just because the car has a DC electrical system does not mean there aren&#039;t power supplies galore.disconnect the battery negative and you break the circuit - that&#039;s pretty simple and obvious - not even worth mentioning.&nbsp; we all agree one fuse on the battery negative is not feasible for overcurrent protection of anything - thus it&#039;s a pointless form of protection. before it would ever pop from a short, the fused positive wire that shorted would open the circuit first (since it&#039;s fuse should be smaller).exactly my point.&nbsp; that summarizes most of what we&#039;ve been talking about.i stepped out of my normal shell and got combative for a while.&nbsp; i apologize for being fairly unprofessional.&nbsp; i don&#039;t like name calling, yet i fell into the trap.&nbsp; &nbsp; that happens about once a year or so.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="keep_hope_alive, post: 7083289, member: 576029"] i've been busy, not avoiding this. i think we can bring this back to a civil conversation. you bring up excellent points but i still see that you are missing some of what i'm trying to say. the problem with educated people having a discussion about technical concepts is that we get caught up in semantics and it takes some bantering before we realize we're trying to say the same thing. I fully grasp these concepts. Why do you assume I do not? These go without saying and do not contradict anything i've tried to say. My argument is false if, and only if, there is no resistance between ground points on the chassis of an automobile in use. When the car is off, we don't care. When the battery is disconnected, we don't care. we were talking about the validity and purpose of fusing grounds in an automobile. that was the purpose of this thread and we all agree on this. I got on a side topic regarding noise as a result of resistance in the chassis and that caused disagreement, i think, because of interpretations of my use of the phrase "difference in potential". maybe the term "electrical potential difference" sits with you better? if you prefer different terminology let me know. there is resistance between each battery terminal and the load. even if the load is connected directly to the battery - there is resistance in the connections. the voltage between terminals at the load is less than the voltage between terminals at the battery - how much less depends on current and resistance of each path. simple ohm's law. work is done as charge "flows" from point A to point B. this means there is an electrical potential difference between any two points of either path. all this is measurable. we shouldn't be arguing any of this. yes, the vehicle chassis is essentially a giant bus bar. a buss bar has resistance per unit length. bus bars have voltage drop while in use. all of the grounds points have a electrical potential difference between them while the automobile is in use. the chassis not a perfect conductor without resistance. there is resistance between all connections. most of the electrical components in the car are not purely resistive anymore. modern electronics place noise back on the electrical system - common with any non-linear power supply. switching power supplies, regulated power supplies, all of these generate electrical noise, and not all are properly filtered due to cost. just because the car has a DC electrical system does not mean there aren't power supplies galore. disconnect the battery negative and you break the circuit - that's pretty simple and obvious - not even worth mentioning. we all agree one fuse on the battery negative is not feasible for overcurrent protection of anything - thus it's a pointless form of protection. before it would ever pop from a short, the fused positive wire that shorted would open the circuit first (since it's fuse should be smaller). exactly my point. that summarizes most of what we've been talking about. i stepped out of my normal shell and got combative for a while. i apologize for being fairly unprofessional. i don't like name calling, yet i fell into the trap. that happens about once a year or so. [/QUOTE]

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