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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Savant" data-source="post: 177401" data-attributes="member: 546108">Yet more cultural relativism.. Sure, it would be ideal if all parents were good parents and had the means to provide decent lives for their kids and were good role models.. But that isn't reality.. When the poorest of our society has (if even present) both parents working 2 jobs each just to pay for some rundown shack, there is noone there to raise those kids but other kids and the media.. You can't have it both ways.. either you make sure all people can make a decent living, or you accept that your economic model requires some people to not have jobs.. thereby forcing them into a shitty life.. Pick one..Our society has.. they choose to have the bulk of the population have a lot of nice things at the expense of a few million members of it's population..The reason we don't let teachers discipline kids is because, as you pointed out, people are imperfect.. and there are teachers that use excessive force for one reason or another.. Some parents do that too.. so we have laws that try to protect children.. are kids today smart enough to occasionaly use that to their advantage and become hellions? sure.. but in general, when parents have the means to have reasonable interacion with their kids the kids end up in a decent position in life.. when parents aren't allowed to be present to raise their kids because they have to work so much that they can't be home, or if they are generations of drug addicted dirtbags, those kids are bound for truble.. Yeah.. let's blame those kids..We have kids cracking at 8 because the place they are living sucks so bad that cracking is an acceptable thing for them to do (in their minds if nothing else). No one (who's reasonable) 'tolerates' children cracking at 8, we just don't give a shit if it's a few kids in the projects.. that is, until it's time to drive past one of those neighborhoods and we get carjacked.. then we cry like little bit*hes about how things are so terrible, yet have no interest in working the actual problem..No, we don't agree.. it's not that I don't see it, it's that you have no friggin idea what you are talking about.. First you say people should have no rights in prison, then you say you are for reform and rehabilitation? Make up your friggn mind.. Course, on closer examination, you talk about 'reform' which doesn't take a stand one way or the other on 'rehabilitation'.. reform cuts both ways.. How about you make a final statement about if you are for prisoners being 'rehabilitated' or having all their rights removed and just dropped in a cage.. define your interpritation of 'reform'..Until you manage to form a decent argument/dabate/position, don't bother replying.. I'm getting tired of your shadowy banter that leads nowhere and is full of 1/2 statements designed to try and sway the simple of mind to your side.. When you think you are ready for a real debate on points and merits, let me know.. Your last few posts have not offered one bit of decent or reasonable substantiation to support your opinions or your accusations.. You just keep saying how society is not to blame and how it's the fault of the individual, yet when I show a reasonable idea as to why they are where they are, you just repeat yourself.. "it's the fault of the individual, society has nothing to do with it.... it's the fault of the individual, society has nothing to do with it..".. then show me how society is removed from blame .. how our society doesn't require people to be on the bottom of the scale so others can be on the top.. and we can have a fat-huge middle class.. most of whom are no better than those in the gutter but figure they deserve what they have and thereby figure those on the bottom did it to themselves.. Kind of like the Kings of old figured god meant for them to rule and the peasants were meant for their entertainment..That's called Archaic... Time to step into the modern times and look at the problems associated with it.. stop hiding your head in the sand and trying to comfort yourself as blameless.. we all take part in the suffering of the bottom of the class stucture, we all should be trying to help change it.. Only a few have most of the money and should probably give some of that to help, the rest of us should be openminded enough to realize we contribute to the suffering and defend the rights of those that are being abused by the system.. Should we tolerate attacks against citizens? no.. should we at least TRY to help the attackers see that they don't have to be like that? YES.. that's the entire idea of rehabilitation in the prison system..Geez.. why do I keep being so long winded when it's wasted breath? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/banghead.gif.8606515f668c74f6de0281deb475b6fd.gif</blockquote>

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