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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Savant" data-source="post: 177397" data-attributes="member: 546108">Actually, the restitution was just repaying the incurred damages to the victim. That, if you ask me, has nothing to do with getting a second chance or not, it was just the reasonable thing to do.. The fines were another $1,000 which was also noise to me ($3,500 total).. The thing that stuck in my mind the most was having to go to the Probation Officer once a month, at the time they wanted me there, and if I didn't show up, I'd go to jail.. Probation was the deterant (that and my own realization that what I had done wasn't right.. course, I knew that going in but needed food and didn't care that much.. getting caught just made me take the 'do unto others' philosophy more to heart).. Your statement was that 'probation' isn't the answer, that it was a dis-service. I disagree. For someone that wants to do the right thing, and has the tools to see what that means, probation can be an effective deterant.. Putting them in prison with 'no privileges', as you suggest, is what I would consider not giving someone a second chance..Yes.. I had the opportunity.. but a lot of people don't have that..What would you consider 'being handed for nothing an easy way out'?? Winning the lottery?? I was looking for work and not able to find any.. I wanted to work but couldn't get any.. And, that was years before the commision of any crimes.. That opportunity prevented me from doing anything rash at that point... it's when I got out of the Navy and ended up in the streets again that I commited the felony.. So, in that context, I took the opportunity to get out of a bad sitaution at that point, but ended up back in a shitty spot a few years later.. Therefore, your statment, while nice.. has no meaning.. I wasn't 'handed an opportunity' when I decided to enroll in college and do something with my life.. It's something I decided to do to provide a decent life for my daughter..And.. I argue that some people are a LOT more imperfect than others, politicians being amungst the worst..Well, you said it.. several countries that don't have the same economic disparigence we have.. Democratic societies that aren't run by only a few people..You almost understand! They started with the petty wrongs of not being able to have decent meals, being exposed to drugs/alchohol, violence, abuse, murder, and many other atrocities before they were 10 years old.. They were shit on from day one and that is what builds their moral base (or lack there of according to most people).. It's NOT their fault that they start out in total crap, it's their parents', right? but their parents started there too.. Hmm.. it goes back for a long time.. many generations of people are born and raised in total crap for an existence.. and thereby have a totally different moral set than 'normal' people.. why? so the rich can get more rich and the average American can have a decent life.. Instead of trying to lift these poeple out of the muck, it's easier to spit on them and blame them for being in the muck in the first place? Yeah, that makes sense.. And no, it's not 'just' an inner city thing, that's just where it's the most rampant.. Blaming someone for starting out in complete crap for a life isn't gonna help them to understand they don't have to stay there.. making them informed and offering them a way out is the only way to break the cycle (and yes, they have to want to.. but you can't keep faulting them if you aren't willing to give them the information and tools needed to change)Though, I would argue the point of opportunity existing for 'everyone'.. while I agree that as a general rule, most people have a reasonable chance to advance their lives if they want to, that is not the truth for 'all' people in this country..Also, prison isn't reserved for just 'violent' criminals.. people busted for various drug charges can end up there too.. and a violent crime might be justified.. Involentary Manslaughter.. ever heard of that? Sometimes someone dies but the government wants to make sure people don't think that it's ok.. so they punish someone that might otherwise not be guilty (would be self defense perhaps).. All types end up in prison, not just rapists and child molesters.. And, sometimes people that should be in prison can buy their freedom, how is that equal opportunity? If I have millions of dollars, I have more rights than a street thug..So, now you are saying the educational system needs to be fixed? But, aren't you the one that earlier said "FACT: all kids have a desk and books in a school"? Yet, you now acknowledge that the educational system is failing some of our children? .. Well, I guess I should at least be happy that you can see that..What, public flogging of the lower class so the upper class doesn't have to worry about a peasant uprising? Do you have ANY idea why we came to this country?? Because that type of thinking is NOT acceptable.. We came here to get away from oppresive rule, yet you want to 'enforce social rules' like has been done 'for centuries'? We are just over 200 years old in this country.. you really think it's a good idea to treat people now like we did then? Like was being done when our Fathers decided to leave the country that did that? Wow..You are right, most of society figures that if they make some kind of 'fund' for a problem that the problem should go away.. but they do that in a vaccume.. I agree, tossing money at a problem doesn't make it go away, but that's what the rich of this country try to do.. why? they have tons of money and no compassion or desire to be associated to the despare they cause in order to have their money..(pseudo edit:.. I think by 'rules which lasted for centuries' you mean we should have all people in our society be decent people.. and with that I agree.. we 'do' enforce those rules.. that's why we have prisons and such, to let people know that they have certian things they must do to be allowed to comingle with the rest of us.. I have no idea why you mention that in the way you did.. course, that's why I made the inital statement in response..)</blockquote>

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