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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Savant" data-source="post: 176669" data-attributes="member: 546108">I think you better do some research.. 6mo. in prison is pretty short. And, depending on a LOT of variables, you can spend between 5 and 15 years on your first offense..By my math, you ended up in jail in '76? Was this in the same rural community that you grew up in? (well.. I really shouldn't be making the presumption that you were a farm boy in the middle of nowhere when you were a kid.. but that's pretty much the only way I see you having an outhouse as the only place to potty until you were 12, in 1970..). Dirt floors and one large cage is not even close to modern jails.. that's like something from Mexico now-adays.. Here too, I'd be curious about what kind of conviction it was since I doubt you would get 6 months for having a joint on you, or even a 1/4 oz for personal use.. You might though, since the idea is punishment is a deterant and they wanted you not to smoke anymore (ever wonder why that is? something about opening your mind, actually.. now there is even a debate about if Ephedra, an erb, should be made illegal over the counter since it's killing people.. but the FDA only wants to make 'herbs' illegal if they have a 'proven' seriously negative effect.. pot does not, not on the individual.. course, it causes people to question currput government leaders and corperate america.. so in that sense, and that sense alone, it's dangerous).. Anyway, this is straying way off the point.. Jail is not prison.. they both ****, but they are on different scales.. Doesn't change the topic.. should prisons rehabilitate or just detain in shitty conditions..Then it sounds like an expungment is even more powerful than a pardon.. know why? YOU STILL HAVE TO ANSWER YES TO THE FELONY QUESTION.. and can add you have a pardon.. no 'hiding' it there.. And, as you pointed out, it's a lot easier to get an expungement than a pardon.. the only reason to need a pardon instead of an expungment is because you are dealing with a felony instead of a misdimeanor (unless expungment is on top of a pardon, but I bet you can't get an expungment of a felony, and if you can, not until you get the pardon).. Anyway, this still has nothing to do with the topic or undertone of these posts..Not sure where to go with this.. All I can really get from here is you started college but never finished.. then started working for a 'multi million dollar' company (which doens't impress me, by the way.. I worked for a 'multi million dollay' company in Arkansas.. very small outfit.. it was a software company with 3 developers.. I personally helped build, from the ground up with just my manager, a producted projected to pull in ~$5 mil a year.. then was promptly let go instead of getting the raise I was promised I would get when the product was complete.. "million dollar a year" companies are a dime a dozen actually, and I'm not sure how hard it would be to be the finance guy for that.. The finance guy for the Arkansas company was a putz).. You have the 'hours' for History and Finance? what does that mean? As in, the course of study requires X hours of 'field' work or something like that and you have that, just haven't taken the actual courses? ok.. so?.. you don't have a degree yet but are getting one.. the point is? I guess the point is you don't have a degree, but were willing to imply you did since you said you attended college.. Truth is, you didn't get a degree so mentioning you attended college is pointless (without more information as to why that's pertinant to anything) History and Finance.. I would think you would have a much better grasp of the American economy then, and how corperate america has systematically abused the population for money (and if you really want to get into all of that, how the religious leaders helped corperations along by focusing on the whole "you suffer more now but will have better when you die" bs..). So, I would also think that if you can see how this has all been going (history), you could see how a small sector of our society is being totally shit on (finance).. most of those are the people in prison.. and you don't think we should try and help them have better tools to live with when they get out of prison than when they went in? That being reform/rehabilitation.. I'm losing more respect for you each time you post.. You have the tools/information (seemingly) to look at this from several angles yet you insist on being closed-minded and say "I got out so it's their own fault if they don't".. Typical Conservative attitude.. Gimme mine and screw anyone that can't take theirs, nevermind the FACT that one can't have without someone else going without..Well.. again, since you haven't provided enough info, I can't speak to your 'poverty'.. but again, I'll bet it wasn't "modern inner city" type poverty with drugs/alchohol/shootings/abuse/etc etc.. Being 'poor' is one thing, and yes.. it can be a powerful motivator.. but you make it seem like people that had decent lives decide to give up and "fall into poverty" ? That makes no sense and has no bearing on what we are talking about.. we are talking about people who are born and raised in extreme poverty who don't have the tools required to even KNOW they have a choice to get out..(sigh) still over..</blockquote>

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