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prison reform
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<blockquote data-quote="Savant" data-source="post: 176385" data-attributes="member: 546108"><p>Just how old are you? If you are under 50, then I submit that you lived in a TOTALLY ***-backward community.. which would in LARGE explain your situation (oh.. wait, I'm not allowed to propose that where you grew up had anything to do with where you might be headed)..</p><p></p><p></p><p>Pardon.. I never said or implied that we are 'all' victimized by some boogie man to such an extent that we are 'all' going to get fukked.. I said that it's a requirement of the boogie man that 'some' people fall into that boat..</p><p></p><p></p><p>You really don't know me at all then.. I wouldn't try to convince you that you had no ability to change where you were headed, nor would I imply that you 'couldnt help it'.. I would try to show you 'why' you where you were, and try to help you understand that you don't have to let that govern your life.. I'm FAR from the crying Liberals you would try to lump me with.. While I have a VERY clear understanding of what's going on in our society and know EXACTLY what causes these greifs, I would in NO way try to 'justify' to someone in trouble a scape goat, but would try to educate them to what is their bane.. and try to help them overcome that.. and become a better person DESPITE what is happening to them..</p><p></p><p></p><p>Tough love is one thing, telling all people that get shit on that it's their own fault is another..</p><p></p><p></p><p>Why not? You put your life on the line for the shitbags in this country and don't bother to utilize resources at your disposal?.. I don't get that.. maybe you aren't as bright as I thought you were..</p><p></p><p></p><p>Perhaps if you had bothered to use your life experience to elaborate on things people wouldn't have to make presumtions.. It has NOTHING to do with what I WISH had been true, it has to do with your piss poor ability to communicate your thoughts.. If your intent was to 'show you served a sentance in a shitty environment and that helped motivate you' then you should have said that.. not just said 'I got a pot convo at 18'.. that doesn't help anyone.. Do you have ANY idea how many people in this country get 'convicted' of a crime but don't serve a sentance? By the by, how long did you spend in that shitty jail? Did you have a cell mate? Did you get to exercise? watch TV?.. were you ***** or beaten in there? Jail and "prison" are quite a bit different..</p><p></p><p></p><p>Glad to hear you were able to do something about yours.. I was told to bugger off until some 'business' showed conceren.. Course, I could appeal that with every new governer, but why? What would be the point? What would I gain from it? not damm much.. and the 'average' joe on the street with a conviction isn't going to get an expungment.. I mean, think about it.. if you could get one without a lot of hard work and potentially a lot of money, no one would care if they got convicted of a crime anyway.. they could just get it cleaned up... Just because you had ONE thing on your record, and something that (as I pointed out before) isn't a 'big' deal to society doesn't mean that the 10's of thousands of ex-cons could get their records cleared on their first offense and have a clean start.. yours, I would argue, is the exception.. by far..</p><p></p><p></p><p>I have NO idea what you are talking about here.. living in the streets and being 1/2 starved and not having any of life's nicities is NOT the easy way out.. these people (the criminal element we are pretty much talking about) have it BETTER in prison then they did before prison.. that's THE PROBLEM.. When you get 3 meals a day and HEATED places to sleep, sometimes thats a LOT better than sleeping on a bench and eating what you can steal.. Again, I submit that you either have no clue or have forgotten what it's like to have nothing (at "6" figures a year, you have a pretty friggn nice life.. if you don't, then again.. you are a moron)..</p><p></p><p></p><p>Are you trying to tell me you consider yourself a "PhD" in Sociology because you had a shitty life???? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif</p><p></p><p>Get a clue.. Just because you have been in a shitty place doesn't mean you have ANY understaning of the cause or the effects.. The first time I read that I thought you were implying you achived a PhD despite your 'life experiences' and partly because of your 'understanding of sociology'.. but the more I read the more I doubt you have a PhD.. especially in Sociology, Psycology, Social Work, or ANY HUMAN relations/understanding/compassion type school of thought..</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sorry.. I don't 'name call' to everyone that disagrees with me... In FACT.. I belive it was YOU that provided some links that educated me on a subject that I was unfamiliar with, and "I" thanked "YOU" for that.. and not once called you a moron.. However, there are some things that I feel VERY strongly about, and the only time I've ever dealt with someone that couldn't at least understand (not neccissarily agree) the point was .. in fact.. a moron.. I'm sorry if that offends (or applies to) you.. I do belive I even said at one point that you seem to be a pretty bright individual, just not one that has looked at your opinions from more than one angle.. Again, if that offends you, tuff..</p><p></p><p></p><p>what? victim of the victim psychology? Perhaps it's late.. perhaps I've been drinking too much tonight.. or perhaps you made NO sense with that statement... 'doing time' has precious little to do with psychology.. it has a lot more to do with environment and how one was taught (or not taught, as the case may be) to interact with society.. A 'hardned soul' is, quite simply, someone who has given up on hope.. someone who knows it's futile to struggle against the status-quo.. someone who has resolved to being considered less than human by the rest of society..</p><p></p><p> </p><p>I agree with that statement, but I would also add.. the only time they can do that is when they understand that they need to "turn around".. that's where the 'rehabilitation' aspect of prison comes into effect.. which is, after all, the topic of this thread.. If you belive putting the average human (which I don't think you can argue, is pretty 'not intelligent') in a cage for X years isn't gonna help them "turn around"..</p><p></p><p>You bring up a few questions for me though.. What do you have a degree in? What was your major? How did you pay for college and why didn't you use any of your GI Bill?... Just curious..</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Savant, post: 176385, member: 546108"] Just how old are you? If you are under 50, then I submit that you lived in a TOTALLY ***-backward community.. which would in LARGE explain your situation (oh.. wait, I'm not allowed to propose that where you grew up had anything to do with where you might be headed).. Pardon.. I never said or implied that we are 'all' victimized by some boogie man to such an extent that we are 'all' going to get fukked.. I said that it's a requirement of the boogie man that 'some' people fall into that boat.. You really don't know me at all then.. I wouldn't try to convince you that you had no ability to change where you were headed, nor would I imply that you 'couldnt help it'.. I would try to show you 'why' you where you were, and try to help you understand that you don't have to let that govern your life.. I'm FAR from the crying Liberals you would try to lump me with.. While I have a VERY clear understanding of what's going on in our society and know EXACTLY what causes these greifs, I would in NO way try to 'justify' to someone in trouble a scape goat, but would try to educate them to what is their bane.. and try to help them overcome that.. and become a better person DESPITE what is happening to them.. Tough love is one thing, telling all people that get shit on that it's their own fault is another.. Why not? You put your life on the line for the shitbags in this country and don't bother to utilize resources at your disposal?.. I don't get that.. maybe you aren't as bright as I thought you were.. Perhaps if you had bothered to use your life experience to elaborate on things people wouldn't have to make presumtions.. It has NOTHING to do with what I WISH had been true, it has to do with your piss poor ability to communicate your thoughts.. If your intent was to 'show you served a sentance in a shitty environment and that helped motivate you' then you should have said that.. not just said 'I got a pot convo at 18'.. that doesn't help anyone.. Do you have ANY idea how many people in this country get 'convicted' of a crime but don't serve a sentance? By the by, how long did you spend in that shitty jail? Did you have a cell mate? Did you get to exercise? watch TV?.. were you ***** or beaten in there? Jail and "prison" are quite a bit different.. Glad to hear you were able to do something about yours.. I was told to bugger off until some 'business' showed conceren.. Course, I could appeal that with every new governer, but why? What would be the point? What would I gain from it? not damm much.. and the 'average' joe on the street with a conviction isn't going to get an expungment.. I mean, think about it.. if you could get one without a lot of hard work and potentially a lot of money, no one would care if they got convicted of a crime anyway.. they could just get it cleaned up... Just because you had ONE thing on your record, and something that (as I pointed out before) isn't a 'big' deal to society doesn't mean that the 10's of thousands of ex-cons could get their records cleared on their first offense and have a clean start.. yours, I would argue, is the exception.. by far.. I have NO idea what you are talking about here.. living in the streets and being 1/2 starved and not having any of life's nicities is NOT the easy way out.. these people (the criminal element we are pretty much talking about) have it BETTER in prison then they did before prison.. that's THE PROBLEM.. When you get 3 meals a day and HEATED places to sleep, sometimes thats a LOT better than sleeping on a bench and eating what you can steal.. Again, I submit that you either have no clue or have forgotten what it's like to have nothing (at "6" figures a year, you have a pretty friggn nice life.. if you don't, then again.. you are a moron).. Are you trying to tell me you consider yourself a "PhD" in Sociology because you had a shitty life???? [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif[/IMG] Get a clue.. Just because you have been in a shitty place doesn't mean you have ANY understaning of the cause or the effects.. The first time I read that I thought you were implying you achived a PhD despite your 'life experiences' and partly because of your 'understanding of sociology'.. but the more I read the more I doubt you have a PhD.. especially in Sociology, Psycology, Social Work, or ANY HUMAN relations/understanding/compassion type school of thought.. Sorry.. I don't 'name call' to everyone that disagrees with me... In FACT.. I belive it was YOU that provided some links that educated me on a subject that I was unfamiliar with, and "I" thanked "YOU" for that.. and not once called you a moron.. However, there are some things that I feel VERY strongly about, and the only time I've ever dealt with someone that couldn't at least understand (not neccissarily agree) the point was .. in fact.. a moron.. I'm sorry if that offends (or applies to) you.. I do belive I even said at one point that you seem to be a pretty bright individual, just not one that has looked at your opinions from more than one angle.. Again, if that offends you, tuff.. what? victim of the victim psychology? Perhaps it's late.. perhaps I've been drinking too much tonight.. or perhaps you made NO sense with that statement... 'doing time' has precious little to do with psychology.. it has a lot more to do with environment and how one was taught (or not taught, as the case may be) to interact with society.. A 'hardned soul' is, quite simply, someone who has given up on hope.. someone who knows it's futile to struggle against the status-quo.. someone who has resolved to being considered less than human by the rest of society.. I agree with that statement, but I would also add.. the only time they can do that is when they understand that they need to "turn around".. that's where the 'rehabilitation' aspect of prison comes into effect.. which is, after all, the topic of this thread.. If you belive putting the average human (which I don't think you can argue, is pretty 'not intelligent') in a cage for X years isn't gonna help them "turn around".. You bring up a few questions for me though.. What do you have a degree in? What was your major? How did you pay for college and why didn't you use any of your GI Bill?... Just curious.. [/QUOTE]
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