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<blockquote data-quote="MiniVanMan" data-source="post: 2937764" data-attributes="member: 573252"><p>I keep mentioning impedance in context of the argument. If you're going to base your opinion on which driver to choose, and you choose a 4 ohm driver, or lesser impedance driver because it has a lower impedance, and you can deliver more power to it, that is not making an educated choice, and you're making that choice for the wrong reasons.</p><p></p><p>Doing the math helps, and I appreciate that. At least you're making valid arguments, and they're pretty hard to argue with. You've also taken many of my statements out of context. If I don't mention impedance, then people don't know what the argument is.</p><p></p><p>Hoffman's Law states basically what I said, but you seem to quote me to refute me. You just wrote it in the inverse of how I stated it.</p><p></p><p>I don't care what driver you choose. I'm just tired of hearing the same comments about 8 ohm drivers.</p><p></p><p>I can do the math, and I can get the same sensitivity numbers you get. They're irrefutable. However, I know, when I put both the RS180-4 and -8 into my vehicle running off the same amp, the audible difference is negligible. Even metered, the difference is only around .5 db on average (I've done a couple of vehicles). I did that because I had a hard time in the beginning believing that an 8 ohm driver would do that. Now that's while delivering a good amount of power though, 150x2 @ 4 ohms. If it were just a 75 x 2 @ 4 ohms, I'd be hesitant to suggest an 8 ohm driver for reasons I stated before.</p><p></p><p>So, while, I have been overgeneralizing, I've been trying to debunk myths. Oversimplifying is also saying that a 4 ohm driver running off of double the power of an 8 ohm driver will be 3 db more sensitive. That's the argument I'm debunking.</p><p></p><p>So, yes, I have been making references to impedance, but that was in the context of the argument that for some reason the lower impedance will create a louder driver. It very well might. But YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS!! I can make the exact same argument the other way for every time somebody says I'm generalizing. Why is it okay to generalize with a lower impedance driver and not a higher one?</p><p></p><p>Maybe I should not have said, "will not". I should have taken the road of "not necessarily".</p><p></p><p>Even sensitivity numbers don't tell the whole story. They're a bit more accurate than impedance numbers. Zaph consistently shows T/S parameters to be quite a bit different than advertised in his testing.</p><p></p><p>So, you're right, I'm wrong. I should have just kept my mouth shut, and not even brought up the argument. I should just accept that those that don't want to know don't need to know. Making argument against generalizations with generalizations is not very scientific I admit. I am wrong on that. However, I find that when trying to reverse a line of thinking, throwing out equations, and a bunch of facts, figures, and technical data is not the best way to do that.</p><p></p><p>To show that generalizations, and arguments can be made for both sides promotes curiosity and critical thinking.</p><p></p><p>I can go on and on about various "gross" generalizations in car audio, and misinformation. Baby steps though.</p><p></p><p>Thank you for the equations, but even you must admit that they don't tell the whole story. It's car audio. It's very hard to predict how anything will react from car to car. We have to go on generalizations at times.</p><p></p><p>In other words, I don't know why we're arguing. Unless you have stock in 4 ohm drivers.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MiniVanMan, post: 2937764, member: 573252"] I keep mentioning impedance in context of the argument. If you're going to base your opinion on which driver to choose, and you choose a 4 ohm driver, or lesser impedance driver because it has a lower impedance, and you can deliver more power to it, that is not making an educated choice, and you're making that choice for the wrong reasons. Doing the math helps, and I appreciate that. At least you're making valid arguments, and they're pretty hard to argue with. You've also taken many of my statements out of context. If I don't mention impedance, then people don't know what the argument is. Hoffman's Law states basically what I said, but you seem to quote me to refute me. You just wrote it in the inverse of how I stated it. I don't care what driver you choose. I'm just tired of hearing the same comments about 8 ohm drivers. I can do the math, and I can get the same sensitivity numbers you get. They're irrefutable. However, I know, when I put both the RS180-4 and -8 into my vehicle running off the same amp, the audible difference is negligible. Even metered, the difference is only around .5 db on average (I've done a couple of vehicles). I did that because I had a hard time in the beginning believing that an 8 ohm driver would do that. Now that's while delivering a good amount of power though, 150x2 @ 4 ohms. If it were just a 75 x 2 @ 4 ohms, I'd be hesitant to suggest an 8 ohm driver for reasons I stated before. So, while, I have been overgeneralizing, I've been trying to debunk myths. Oversimplifying is also saying that a 4 ohm driver running off of double the power of an 8 ohm driver will be 3 db more sensitive. That's the argument I'm debunking. So, yes, I have been making references to impedance, but that was in the context of the argument that for some reason the lower impedance will create a louder driver. It very well might. But YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS!! I can make the exact same argument the other way for every time somebody says I'm generalizing. Why is it okay to generalize with a lower impedance driver and not a higher one? Maybe I should not have said, "will not". I should have taken the road of "not necessarily". Even sensitivity numbers don't tell the whole story. They're a bit more accurate than impedance numbers. Zaph consistently shows T/S parameters to be quite a bit different than advertised in his testing. So, you're right, I'm wrong. I should have just kept my mouth shut, and not even brought up the argument. I should just accept that those that don't want to know don't need to know. Making argument against generalizations with generalizations is not very scientific I admit. I am wrong on that. However, I find that when trying to reverse a line of thinking, throwing out equations, and a bunch of facts, figures, and technical data is not the best way to do that. To show that generalizations, and arguments can be made for both sides promotes curiosity and critical thinking. I can go on and on about various "gross" generalizations in car audio, and misinformation. Baby steps though. Thank you for the equations, but even you must admit that they don't tell the whole story. It's car audio. It's very hard to predict how anything will react from car to car. We have to go on generalizations at times. In other words, I don't know why we're arguing. Unless you have stock in 4 ohm drivers. [/QUOTE]
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