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<blockquote data-quote="thylantyr" data-source="post: 1240782" data-attributes="member: 560358"><p><strong>how do you figure out which crossovers to use ( out of the 4)....how do you figure out which slope is best? </strong></p><p></p><p>Crossovers are not without flaw, they have their pros/cons and you have to</p><p></p><p>determine what will work for your design. The Linkwitz-Riley type is popular</p><p></p><p>because it's the lesser of the evils. But are you limited in slope selection.</p><p></p><p>These crossovers are not brick wall in spitting the frequency range, rather they attenuate the frequency. The steeper the slope = more attenuation. You have to</p><p></p><p>determine how much attenuation will work for the design. Also, steeper slopes =</p><p></p><p>more electronic parts to make it work.</p><p></p><p>Lets use the Seas Excel 8" midwoofer as an example. Some folks like this midwoofer but it has nasty cone breakup modes in the upper frequency range.</p><p></p><p>If you were to use a narrow slope you will still hear the nasties and it would force</p><p></p><p>you to use a very low crossover point rendering the design useless. But if you use</p><p></p><p>a steeper slope you can raise that crossover frequency higher to the range you</p><p></p><p>want to operate the driver and still provide good sound as the nasties won't</p><p></p><p>be as annoying.</p><p></p><p>Lets use my PT2 line array as an example. Nobody in DIY land will use the PT2</p><p></p><p>planar under 2.5khz with 4th order {24dB/octave} because the driver isn't</p><p></p><p>really designed to give you high performance at a lower frequency and you</p><p></p><p>may introduce more distortion if you drive it hard. But, if you use an 8th order</p><p></p><p>{48dB/octave} you can lower that crossover point down to 1.7khz as the steeper</p><p></p><p>slope 'filters' out the midrange crud that makes the driver sound nasty and</p><p></p><p>the lower crossover point can improve stereo imaging. Most hardcore loudspeaker</p><p></p><p>designers prefer a tweeter that can work lower in frequency, ie in the 1.5khz - 2khz range. You don't see many serious designs where the tweeter is crossed over much higher, like in the 5khz range. There are exceptions like super tweeters</p><p></p><p>but if you do use a tweeter that only works good with a crossover at 5khz,</p><p></p><p>this forces you to find an exception midrange to work well in this region. I think</p><p></p><p>you get better stereo imaging when you have a lower tweeter crossover point</p><p></p><p>provided that the tweeter has high dispersion.</p><p></p><p><strong>how do you figure out which crossover and inductor to use in a zobel network and how do you connect that to the crossover?</strong></p><p></p><p>There are online calculators that do zobel calculations for you.</p><p></p><p>More food for thought:</p><p></p><p>Give 10 people two tweeters, two midranges, two woofers and ask them</p><p></p><p>to design a passive crossover for a 3 way loudspeaker. What will happen is this.</p><p></p><p>Each person will most likely have a different design and each system created</p><p></p><p>will sound different. Same drivers, different sound due to different crossover design.</p><p></p><p>The artistic part of loudspeaker design is how you crossover the system. If</p><p></p><p>you ask other people the same questions you asked here, you'll get different</p><p></p><p>answers as each person has different methods.</p><p></p><p>The best way is to understand what sound you get by examining the behavior</p><p></p><p>of different types of crossovers using different slopes and crossover frequencies,</p><p></p><p>then you can visualize in your mind what combination gives you the sound you want.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, other people design their system on software so it's 'technically' correct and settle for the sound it gives. I prefer a different approach,</p><p></p><p>buy only good sounding drivers and try to mix/match to get the sound you like.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="thylantyr, post: 1240782, member: 560358"] [B]how do you figure out which crossovers to use ( out of the 4)....how do you figure out which slope is best? [/B] Crossovers are not without flaw, they have their pros/cons and you have to determine what will work for your design. The Linkwitz-Riley type is popular because it's the lesser of the evils. But are you limited in slope selection. These crossovers are not brick wall in spitting the frequency range, rather they attenuate the frequency. The steeper the slope = more attenuation. You have to determine how much attenuation will work for the design. Also, steeper slopes = more electronic parts to make it work. Lets use the Seas Excel 8" midwoofer as an example. Some folks like this midwoofer but it has nasty cone breakup modes in the upper frequency range. If you were to use a narrow slope you will still hear the nasties and it would force you to use a very low crossover point rendering the design useless. But if you use a steeper slope you can raise that crossover frequency higher to the range you want to operate the driver and still provide good sound as the nasties won't be as annoying. Lets use my PT2 line array as an example. Nobody in DIY land will use the PT2 planar under 2.5khz with 4th order {24dB/octave} because the driver isn't really designed to give you high performance at a lower frequency and you may introduce more distortion if you drive it hard. But, if you use an 8th order {48dB/octave} you can lower that crossover point down to 1.7khz as the steeper slope 'filters' out the midrange crud that makes the driver sound nasty and the lower crossover point can improve stereo imaging. Most hardcore loudspeaker designers prefer a tweeter that can work lower in frequency, ie in the 1.5khz - 2khz range. You don't see many serious designs where the tweeter is crossed over much higher, like in the 5khz range. There are exceptions like super tweeters but if you do use a tweeter that only works good with a crossover at 5khz, this forces you to find an exception midrange to work well in this region. I think you get better stereo imaging when you have a lower tweeter crossover point provided that the tweeter has high dispersion. [B]how do you figure out which crossover and inductor to use in a zobel network and how do you connect that to the crossover?[/B] There are online calculators that do zobel calculations for you. More food for thought: Give 10 people two tweeters, two midranges, two woofers and ask them to design a passive crossover for a 3 way loudspeaker. What will happen is this. Each person will most likely have a different design and each system created will sound different. Same drivers, different sound due to different crossover design. The artistic part of loudspeaker design is how you crossover the system. If you ask other people the same questions you asked here, you'll get different answers as each person has different methods. The best way is to understand what sound you get by examining the behavior of different types of crossovers using different slopes and crossover frequencies, then you can visualize in your mind what combination gives you the sound you want. On the other hand, other people design their system on software so it's 'technically' correct and settle for the sound it gives. I prefer a different approach, buy only good sounding drivers and try to mix/match to get the sound you like. [/QUOTE]
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