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<blockquote data-quote="squeak9798" data-source="post: 5828845" data-attributes="member: 555320">It&#039;s not a &quot;belief&quot; in the same sense as religion belief.&nbsp; It&#039;s the best hypothesis supported by scientific evidence and our observations of the universe.A couple billion?The current observations support an age of 13.5 - 14 billion.&nbsp; That&#039;s 7x longer than you indicate //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif&quot;Big Bang&quot; is a misnomer.&nbsp; There wasn&#039;t a bang (no space for sound to travel) and it wasn&#039;t big (the point that exploded was infinitesimally small).And it didn&#039;t occur in space, there was no space for it to occur in.&nbsp; The &quot;big bang&quot; created space //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gifA big chunk of rock didn&#039;t just fall into place.&nbsp; The short story is that &quot;space dust&quot; gathered around stars gradually coalesced into clumps of material to form planets/etc.But you don&#039;t image that with billions and billions of stars, billions and billions of planets and billions and billions of years that some of these planets would have fallen within the &quot;goldie locks zone&quot; ?&nbsp; The statistics are that we are but one of millions or billions of planets within these zones.With our present understanding of &quot;extremophiles&quot; it is likewise not at all impossible that life could form or be sustained on planets less like our own.Millions to billions of years after it cooled.&nbsp; And you wouldn&#039;t expect to see oxygen breathing life forms on a planet devoid of oxygen, would you?If we didn&#039;t have an oxygen atmosphere, oxygen breathing life would not have evolved.&nbsp; But who is to say that no life would have evolved?&nbsp; It simply wouldn&#039;t be the life we see here today.&nbsp; That doesn&#039;t mean that a life form different from what we are familiar with wouldn&#039;t have evolved, that by evolution and natural selection was able to thrive in the environment from which it found itself in.We humans are here because of our environment, evolution and natural selection.&nbsp; If the environment was different, we wouldn&#039;t have evolved the way we have.&nbsp; We are a product of our surroundings.&nbsp; Nothing more.The &quot;fairy tale&quot; of the big bang is the hypothesis that fits all of our experiments and observations of the natural world and universe.&nbsp; If you have a better hypothesis that currently fits all observed data and is supported by the experimental evidence, by all means put it forth.Here is a pretty good revision of Genesis as it should read;<a href="http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/12/genesis-revisited/" target="_blank">http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/12/genesis-revisited/</a>You shouldn&#039;t.Morals, both personal and social.Personal and social morals.Are you&#039;re telling me if you didn&#039;t believe in the Christian God, you would be a raping, mass murdering, pillaging thief?&nbsp; That&#039;s exactly what you&#039;re telling me if you don&#039;t think you could be a decent person without belief in god.&nbsp; I feel more sorry for you than you should feel for me.I don&#039;t think any non-believer deludes themselves with the idea they are a &quot;majority&quot;You would be better off reading some of the quotes from our founding fathers //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif</blockquote>

[QUOTE="squeak9798, post: 5828845, member: 555320"] It's not a "belief" in the same sense as religion belief. It's the best hypothesis supported by scientific evidence and our observations of the universe. A couple billion? The current observations support an age of 13.5 - 14 billion. That's 7x longer than you indicate [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif[/IMG] "Big Bang" is a misnomer. There wasn't a bang (no space for sound to travel) and it wasn't big (the point that exploded was infinitesimally small). And it didn't occur [I]in[/I] space, there was no space for it to occur in. The "big bang" [I]created[/I] space [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif[/IMG] A big chunk of rock didn't just fall into place. The short story is that "space dust" gathered around stars gradually coalesced into clumps of material to form planets/etc. But you don't image that with billions and billions of stars, billions and billions of planets and billions and billions of years that [I]some of these[/I] planets would have fallen within the "goldie locks zone" ? The statistics are that we are but one of millions or billions of planets within these zones. With our present understanding of "extremophiles" it is likewise not at all impossible that life could form or be sustained on planets less like our own. Millions to billions of years after it cooled. And you wouldn't expect to see oxygen breathing life forms on a planet devoid of oxygen, would you? If we didn't have an oxygen atmosphere, oxygen breathing life would not have evolved. But who is to say that no life would have evolved? It simply wouldn't be the life we see here today. That doesn't mean that a life form different from what we are familiar with wouldn't have evolved, that by evolution and natural selection was able to thrive in the environment from which it found itself in. We humans are here because of our environment, evolution and natural selection. If the environment was different, we wouldn't have evolved the way we have. We are a product of our surroundings. Nothing more. The "fairy tale" of the big bang is the hypothesis that fits all of our experiments and observations of the natural world and universe. If you have a better hypothesis that currently fits all observed data and is supported by the experimental evidence, by all means put it forth. Here is a pretty good revision of Genesis as it [I]should[/I] read; [URL="http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/12/genesis-revisited/"]http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/12/genesis-revisited/[/URL] You shouldn't. Morals, both personal and social. Personal and social morals. Are you're telling me if you didn't believe in the Christian God, you would be a raping, mass murdering, pillaging thief? That's exactly what you're telling me if you don't think you could be a decent person without belief in god. I feel more sorry for you than you should feel for me. I don't think any non-believer deludes themselves with the idea they are a "majority" You would be better off reading some of the quotes from our founding fathers [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif[/IMG] [/QUOTE]

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