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<blockquote data-quote="thylantyr" data-source="post: 2200188" data-attributes="member: 560358"><p>Bill Lummus</p><p></p><p>09-05-04, 07:36 AM</p><p></p><p>I meant, some specific examples of cables- like manufacturer and part number.</p><p></p><p>Larry Fine</p><p></p><p>09-05-04, 08:34 AM</p><p></p><p>Sorry, I misunderstood. I'm not a part-number walking catalog like some people are,</p><p></p><p>but I could do a search.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat_id=304&amp;sku=43054" target="_blank">http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat_id=304&amp;sku=43054</a></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&amp;DID=7&amp;Partnumber=100-250" target="_blank">http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&amp;DID=7&amp;Partnumber=100-250</a></p><p></p><p><a href="http://cu1.com/rgplencopcoa.html" target="_blank">http://cu1.com/rgplencopcoa.html</a></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.l-com.com/sdex/H16.JSP" target="_blank">http://www.l-com.com/sdex/H16.JSP</a></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.electrocables.com/cpage06.htm" target="_blank">http://www.electrocables.com/cpage06.htm</a></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.twacomm.com/Catalog/Model_5011.htm" target="_blank">http://www.twacomm.com/Catalog/Model_5011.htm</a></p><p></p><p>//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif</p><p></p><p>DominoGold</p><p></p><p>09-08-04, 07:24 PM</p><p></p><p>Well, to put the whole thing to rest I am doing 2 things...</p><p></p><p>1. Letting the company that does the low voltage do their "plasma package".</p><p></p><p>I have a sample of the wire they use for both standard coax runs as well as what</p><p></p><p>they are using for the component cables.</p><p></p><p>On the white wire it says:</p><p></p><p>DirectConnect RG6/U 3GHTZ TESTED 18 AWG 60% BRAID PVC COAX CABLE HDTV CL2(UL)</p><p></p><p>E230635 CSA 220255</p><p></p><p>It looks like copper in the center. I know this isn't ideal, but shouldn't it be</p><p></p><p>sufficient for component?</p><p></p><p>2. I am also running some component cables through the wall that I've used before</p><p></p><p>just in case this doesn't go as planned.</p><p></p><p>Bill Lummus</p><p></p><p>09-08-04, 07:29 PM</p><p></p><p>I'll reiterate- get some PVC pipe in the wall so you can replace the wires if</p><p></p><p>you need to. I also would use better shielding that that. For video cable I like</p><p></p><p>foil+&gt;90% copper braid.</p><p></p><p>Johnla</p><p></p><p>09-08-04, 10:24 PM</p><p></p><p>Originally posted by DominoGold</p><p></p><p>It looks like copper in the center. I know this isn't ideal, but shouldn't</p><p></p><p>it be sufficient for component? Why is it not ideal? You do not need anything</p><p></p><p>"more" than copper!</p><p></p><p>DominoGold</p><p></p><p>09-09-04, 05:08 AM</p><p></p><p>I meant the RG6 cable that he uses may not be the "best choice"</p><p></p><p>(not referring specifically to the copper center), but shouldn't it be</p><p></p><p>sufficient for component?</p><p></p><p>Bill Lummus</p><p></p><p>09-09-04, 09:39 AM</p><p></p><p>Depends on you and your enviornment. I don't think it's adequately shielded and</p><p></p><p>I don't know what the dielectric is. It will certainly pass the signal, but may</p><p></p><p>compromise performance- particularly in a high RFI enviornment.</p><p></p><p>catapult</p><p></p><p>09-14-04, 06:34 PM</p><p></p><p>Just as a point of interest, video and digital audio are RF signals if you look at</p><p></p><p>the frequencies involved. Any good quality copper RG6 or RG59 should work fine for</p><p></p><p>a short run of either but you don't want to solder just any old RCA connector you</p><p></p><p>find at Radio Shack on the end. Analog audio is less demanding of both cables and</p><p></p><p>connectors.</p><p></p><p>Larry Fine</p><p></p><p>10-04-04, 07:45 PM</p><p></p><p>I will say once more that, for audio and video, RG-6 has NO advantage over RG-59.</p><p></p><p>As good, maybe, but not better. There are disadvangtages to RG-6: stiffness,</p><p></p><p>aluminum (shield) and/or steel (clad center), difficulty of finding suitable</p><p></p><p>connectors (other than F-to-RCA adapters).</p><p></p><p>WA2000</p><p></p><p>10-05-04, 07:05 AM</p><p></p><p>Thanks Lary, I'm probably obsessing too much about the cables. I did build</p><p></p><p>components out of RG6 (Belden 7710). They are quite stiff. Probably too stiff.</p><p></p><p>To the point where they could use a locking RCA.</p><p></p><p>Figgie</p><p></p><p>10-07-04, 08:48 AM</p><p></p><p>I build my own cables.</p><p></p><p>As with any other job. Having the proper tools is key //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I used 20 feet RG6 equivalent</p><p></p><p>cables (canare V5-5cfb) for video purpose with BNC ends. Overkills. Yes. But I</p><p></p><p>rather go over on video then get a fuzzy soft picture //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif</p><p></p><p>10-15-04, 03:46 PM</p><p></p><p>Originally posted by CJO</p><p></p><p>Howabout attenuation over several hundred (or thousand) feet? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif</p><p></p><p>For audio and video, and not RF, I'd say the same thing: I'd rather use an</p><p></p><p>all-copper RG-59 than a copper-clad-steel, aluminum-shielded RG-6. The copper</p><p></p><p>is more important than the extra thickness of the -6's dielectric.</p><p></p><p>However, a distance of hundreds of feet of coax is really a mis-application for</p><p></p><p>analog audio and baseband video. For these, you need a different method, such as</p><p></p><p>CAT-5, RF, etc.</p><p></p><p>tvtech1</p><p></p><p>10-15-04, 04:03 PM</p><p></p><p>However, a distance of hundreds of feet of coax is really a mis-application for</p><p></p><p>analog audio and baseband video. For these, you need a different method,</p><p></p><p>such as CAT-5, RF, etc.</p><p></p><p>The signals will travel much further over coax then any twisted pair scheme.</p><p></p><p>It's not 'untypical' to send analog video over 500 feet of cable, that's what DA's</p><p></p><p>are for.</p><p></p><p>CJO</p><p></p><p>10-15-04, 06:17 PM</p><p></p><p>Larry, I'm not sure where we are having the miscommunication, but you can purchase</p><p></p><p>RG6 with a solid copper center conductor.</p><p></p><p>lovebohn</p><p></p><p>10-15-04, 08:35 PM</p><p></p><p>I thought Belden 1694a is solid copper or better yet referred to as "BC" bare copper.</p><p></p><p>CJO</p><p></p><p>10-16-04, 10:04 AM</p><p></p><p>It is.</p><p></p><p>bpape</p><p></p><p>10-16-04, 10:35 AM</p><p></p><p>Belden 1694A is used all over the place for AV cabling. It is a fine choice for a</p><p></p><p>sub cable. For subwoofer usage, it will perform just as well (and better than some)</p><p></p><p>exotic cables costing far more. Put a good crimp style RCA connector on it and you'll</p><p></p><p>be fine. 1695A is slightly smaller but with Teflon Dielectric. Also over double the</p><p></p><p>price. As larry said, stay away from copper clad steel stuff. This is not at all</p><p></p><p>desirable for audio applications.</p><p></p><p>Larry Fine</p><p></p><p>10-16-04, 05:51 PM</p><p></p><p>Originally posted by tvtech1</p><p></p><p>The signals will travel much further over coax then any twisted pair scheme.</p><p></p><p>It's not 'untypical' to send analog video over 500 feet of cable, that's what DA's</p><p></p><p>are for. Even with good baluns? As Johnny Carson used to say: "I did not know that!"</p><p></p><p>I have used amplification to increase distance for AV, but I've never had to push it</p><p></p><p>that far. I've even used a low-power stereo amp with a voltage divider at the</p><p></p><p>destination receiver for audio.</p><p></p><p>Originally posted by CJO</p><p></p><p>Larry, I'm not sure where we are having the miscommunication, but you can purchase</p><p></p><p>RG6 with a solid copper center conductor. I understand, and you might even find that</p><p></p><p>inside a copper shield, but I still say that RG-59 will perform equally, if not better.</p><p></p><p>Plus, it's more flexible and easier to terminate.</p><p></p><p>My point is that, except for RF use, -6 has no advantage over -59. Maybe someone else</p><p></p><p>can explain more technically that I.</p><p></p><p>CJO</p><p></p><p>10-18-04, 09:09 AM</p><p></p><p>I'll agree with you that RG-59 is more flexible and (somewhat) easier to terminate,</p><p></p><p>but RG-6 is technically better than RG-59 for both baseband and RF use.</p><p></p><p>The only difference between the two is that the RG-6 has a larger (18 gauge as opposed</p><p></p><p>to 22 gauge) center conductor, which means that it has less attenuation over distance.</p><p></p><p>I.e., you can run the same signal for a longer distance with less loss using RG-6</p><p></p><p>instead of RG-59.</p><p></p><p>tvtech1</p><p></p><p>10-18-04, 01:15 PM</p><p></p><p>Even with good baluns?</p><p></p><p>There is no way a transformer (balun) can have a flat frequency response across the</p><p></p><p>video band, nor can it have no attenuation. Group delay will be a factor as well as</p><p></p><p>insertion loss. The only way to send quality video over a twisted pair is to use an</p><p></p><p>active device. An op-amp to create a differential video signal and match the cable</p><p></p><p>impedance is required.</p><p></p><p>/////////////////////////////////////////</p><p></p><p>RG6 vs. RG59 pic;</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.upgradefever.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=67&amp;size=big" target="_blank">http://www.upgradefever.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=67&amp;size=big</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="thylantyr, post: 2200188, member: 560358"] Bill Lummus 09-05-04, 07:36 AM I meant, some specific examples of cables- like manufacturer and part number. Larry Fine 09-05-04, 08:34 AM Sorry, I misunderstood. I'm not a part-number walking catalog like some people are, but I could do a search. [URL="http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat_id=304&sku=43054"]http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat_id=304&sku=43054[/URL] [URL="http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=100-250"]http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=100-250[/URL] [URL="http://cu1.com/rgplencopcoa.html"]http://cu1.com/rgplencopcoa.html[/URL] [URL="http://www.l-com.com/sdex/H16.JSP"]http://www.l-com.com/sdex/H16.JSP[/URL] [URL="http://www.electrocables.com/cpage06.htm"]http://www.electrocables.com/cpage06.htm[/URL] [URL="http://www.twacomm.com/Catalog/Model_5011.htm"]http://www.twacomm.com/Catalog/Model_5011.htm[/URL] [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif[/IMG] DominoGold 09-08-04, 07:24 PM Well, to put the whole thing to rest I am doing 2 things... 1. Letting the company that does the low voltage do their "plasma package". I have a sample of the wire they use for both standard coax runs as well as what they are using for the component cables. On the white wire it says: DirectConnect RG6/U 3GHTZ TESTED 18 AWG 60% BRAID PVC COAX CABLE HDTV CL2(UL) E230635 CSA 220255 It looks like copper in the center. I know this isn't ideal, but shouldn't it be sufficient for component? 2. I am also running some component cables through the wall that I've used before just in case this doesn't go as planned. Bill Lummus 09-08-04, 07:29 PM I'll reiterate- get some PVC pipe in the wall so you can replace the wires if you need to. I also would use better shielding that that. For video cable I like foil+>90% copper braid. Johnla 09-08-04, 10:24 PM Originally posted by DominoGold It looks like copper in the center. I know this isn't ideal, but shouldn't it be sufficient for component? Why is it not ideal? You do not need anything "more" than copper! DominoGold 09-09-04, 05:08 AM I meant the RG6 cable that he uses may not be the "best choice" (not referring specifically to the copper center), but shouldn't it be sufficient for component? Bill Lummus 09-09-04, 09:39 AM Depends on you and your enviornment. I don't think it's adequately shielded and I don't know what the dielectric is. It will certainly pass the signal, but may compromise performance- particularly in a high RFI enviornment. catapult 09-14-04, 06:34 PM Just as a point of interest, video and digital audio are RF signals if you look at the frequencies involved. Any good quality copper RG6 or RG59 should work fine for a short run of either but you don't want to solder just any old RCA connector you find at Radio Shack on the end. Analog audio is less demanding of both cables and connectors. Larry Fine 10-04-04, 07:45 PM I will say once more that, for audio and video, RG-6 has NO advantage over RG-59. As good, maybe, but not better. There are disadvangtages to RG-6: stiffness, aluminum (shield) and/or steel (clad center), difficulty of finding suitable connectors (other than F-to-RCA adapters). WA2000 10-05-04, 07:05 AM Thanks Lary, I'm probably obsessing too much about the cables. I did build components out of RG6 (Belden 7710). They are quite stiff. Probably too stiff. To the point where they could use a locking RCA. Figgie 10-07-04, 08:48 AM I build my own cables. As with any other job. Having the proper tools is key [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif[/IMG] I used 20 feet RG6 equivalent cables (canare V5-5cfb) for video purpose with BNC ends. Overkills. Yes. But I rather go over on video then get a fuzzy soft picture [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif[/IMG] 10-15-04, 03:46 PM Originally posted by CJO Howabout attenuation over several hundred (or thousand) feet? [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif[/IMG] For audio and video, and not RF, I'd say the same thing: I'd rather use an all-copper RG-59 than a copper-clad-steel, aluminum-shielded RG-6. The copper is more important than the extra thickness of the -6's dielectric. However, a distance of hundreds of feet of coax is really a mis-application for analog audio and baseband video. For these, you need a different method, such as CAT-5, RF, etc. tvtech1 10-15-04, 04:03 PM However, a distance of hundreds of feet of coax is really a mis-application for analog audio and baseband video. For these, you need a different method, such as CAT-5, RF, etc. The signals will travel much further over coax then any twisted pair scheme. It's not 'untypical' to send analog video over 500 feet of cable, that's what DA's are for. CJO 10-15-04, 06:17 PM Larry, I'm not sure where we are having the miscommunication, but you can purchase RG6 with a solid copper center conductor. lovebohn 10-15-04, 08:35 PM I thought Belden 1694a is solid copper or better yet referred to as "BC" bare copper. CJO 10-16-04, 10:04 AM It is. bpape 10-16-04, 10:35 AM Belden 1694A is used all over the place for AV cabling. It is a fine choice for a sub cable. For subwoofer usage, it will perform just as well (and better than some) exotic cables costing far more. Put a good crimp style RCA connector on it and you'll be fine. 1695A is slightly smaller but with Teflon Dielectric. Also over double the price. As larry said, stay away from copper clad steel stuff. This is not at all desirable for audio applications. Larry Fine 10-16-04, 05:51 PM Originally posted by tvtech1 The signals will travel much further over coax then any twisted pair scheme. It's not 'untypical' to send analog video over 500 feet of cable, that's what DA's are for. Even with good baluns? As Johnny Carson used to say: "I did not know that!" I have used amplification to increase distance for AV, but I've never had to push it that far. I've even used a low-power stereo amp with a voltage divider at the destination receiver for audio. Originally posted by CJO Larry, I'm not sure where we are having the miscommunication, but you can purchase RG6 with a solid copper center conductor. I understand, and you might even find that inside a copper shield, but I still say that RG-59 will perform equally, if not better. Plus, it's more flexible and easier to terminate. My point is that, except for RF use, -6 has no advantage over -59. Maybe someone else can explain more technically that I. CJO 10-18-04, 09:09 AM I'll agree with you that RG-59 is more flexible and (somewhat) easier to terminate, but RG-6 is technically better than RG-59 for both baseband and RF use. The only difference between the two is that the RG-6 has a larger (18 gauge as opposed to 22 gauge) center conductor, which means that it has less attenuation over distance. I.e., you can run the same signal for a longer distance with less loss using RG-6 instead of RG-59. tvtech1 10-18-04, 01:15 PM Even with good baluns? There is no way a transformer (balun) can have a flat frequency response across the video band, nor can it have no attenuation. Group delay will be a factor as well as insertion loss. The only way to send quality video over a twisted pair is to use an active device. An op-amp to create a differential video signal and match the cable impedance is required. ///////////////////////////////////////// RG6 vs. RG59 pic; [URL="http://www.upgradefever.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=67&size=big"]http://www.upgradefever.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=67&size=big[/URL] [/QUOTE]
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