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<blockquote data-quote="thylantyr" data-source="post: 2200185" data-attributes="member: 560358"><p><strong>RG6 vs. RG59 debate </strong></p><p></p><p><strong>Standard RG6 Quad Shield for Component Cables? </strong></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-438868.html" target="_blank">http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-438868.html</a></p><p></p><p>Larry Fine</p><p></p><p>08-25-04, 09:58 PM</p><p></p><p>If it were me, I'd specify an all-copper RG-59 for any interconnect other than RF.</p><p></p><p>Larry Fine</p><p></p><p>08-26-04, 09:14 PM</p><p></p><p>The only functional difference between the two is loss over distance for RF use,</p><p></p><p>and we're talking in the tens or hundreds of feet for the difference to become</p><p></p><p>significant. All-copper RG-59 is thinner and more flexible, easier to find RCAs for,</p><p></p><p>and possible to solder them.</p><p></p><p>Bill Lummus</p><p></p><p>08-27-04, 07:30 PM</p><p></p><p>There was a thread here several months ago where it was revealed, correctly so I believe,</p><p></p><p>that the triple shielded RG6 actually provided better noise rejection than the quad</p><p></p><p>shielded. There is a writeup about this on Belden's website. I think their brand name</p><p></p><p>for the good triple shielded cable is duobond. I'd look for that. It's cheap and easy</p><p></p><p>to get. I think you can find the exact numbers on blue jean cables website, they use</p><p></p><p>it too.</p><p></p><p>DominoGold</p><p></p><p>08-28-04, 04:26 PM</p><p></p><p>I snuck into another house under construction to see the type of RG6 they used.</p><p></p><p>It looked like copper rated at 350 Mhz and said "HDTV" labed right on the white cable.</p><p></p><p>This this is good enough for component cables?</p><p></p><p>Bill Lummus</p><p></p><p>08-29-04, 06:44 PM</p><p></p><p>I don't think so.</p><p></p><p>Why not get some of the &gt;1 GHz Belden cable. It's cheap and very good. You can never</p><p></p><p>have too much bandwidth! And be sure that RCA's is what you need for the TV.</p><p></p><p>Some plasmas come with BNCs.</p><p></p><p>Marine2800</p><p></p><p>09-01-04, 10:51 PM</p><p></p><p>Hi folks,</p><p></p><p>Just weighing in with some information on the subject.</p><p></p><p>I am an industry professional and give tech advice to installers, end-users,</p><p></p><p>dealers, and specifying engineers everyday regarding cable and wire applications</p><p></p><p>in the Home Theater, Integration and broadcast market. A standard CCTV RG59</p><p></p><p>can transmit these signals perfectly over significant distances. I have used</p><p></p><p>coaxial cables as small as 26 AWG micro cables for transmitting these signals</p><p></p><p>clearly out to 150 feet. The only issue that may arise in long distances is the</p><p></p><p>timing of the cables. A TDR would be required to measure and cut the cables to</p><p></p><p>synchronize the timing. I have seen this start to happen at distances around 250 feet.</p><p></p><p>Composite, Component, S-Video are all baseband style video signals, a copper/copper</p><p></p><p>coaxial cable is the preferred construction for these signals. The braid can be</p><p></p><p>tinned copper also as in Belden¡¯s 1694A. Copper clad steel center conductors,</p><p></p><p>aluminum foil, and aluminum braid shields are not recommended for this type of</p><p></p><p>application. I have had multiple occasions where people have used RG6 quad shield</p><p></p><p>for rack interconnects and had issues with picture problems, replacing the cables</p><p></p><p>corrected the problems immediately.</p><p></p><p>A copper center conductor, aluminum foil shield, and copper braid is acceptable also.</p><p></p><p>Regarding the connector question, there are many non-solder style RCA plugs on the</p><p></p><p>market. These are compression crimp versions. The tooling is somewhat expensive so</p><p></p><p>if you are only terminating a couple of cables, solder style is cheaper.</p><p></p><p>If I sound like a know-it-all you have my permission to slap me</p><p></p><p>//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif</p><p></p><p>Marine2800</p><p></p><p>09-02-04, 09:48 PM</p><p></p><p>I recommend using a cable constructed for the baseband signals. Steer away from</p><p></p><p>aluminum braid shield as in RG6-Quad and dual shield CATV cable. One gentleman</p><p></p><p>I walked through an image problem had 15 foot RG6-Quad runs with RCA¡¯s on a rack.</p><p></p><p>The quad shield was a bare copper center conductor and aluminum braid shields.</p><p></p><p>We replaced the cable with some quickly constructed RG59 serial digital cable</p><p></p><p>(Liberty Interflex-sd - a non-UL version of Belden 1505A) and radial compression</p><p></p><p>RCA¡¯s and he was in business with a perfect display. I ran tests on his old cables</p><p></p><p>and found they were perfectly fine as far as RF performance. Your standard component</p><p></p><p>video interconnects are usually copper/copper and work fine for the low frequencies</p><p></p><p>involved. For the distance you are running a component video interconnect cable is fine.</p><p></p><p>If you have a source for the RCA plugs and 75 feet of RG59 CCTV cable then you can</p><p></p><p>construct them yourself.</p><p></p><p>DominoGold</p><p></p><p>09-03-04, 03:34 PM</p><p></p><p>I think my low-voltage contactor only uses RG6 for everything, and specifically</p><p></p><p>warned me against using RG59 for anything. So, I'm confused.</p><p></p><p>Marine2800</p><p></p><p>09-03-04, 09:21 PM</p><p></p><p>Do not be confused. RG59 is just a smaller coax with slightly higher attenuation loss.</p><p></p><p>As a guide for example: A serial digital RG6 will successfully transmit a 37 MHz signal</p><p></p><p>up to 377 feet before the -3 dB threshold is reached. A serial digital RG59 will</p><p></p><p>reach 265 feet before the -3 dB loss is reached. Your contractor probably has loads</p><p></p><p>of RG6 and has to recoup his investment.</p><p></p><p>Bill Lummus</p><p></p><p>09-04-04, 08:34 AM</p><p></p><p>Sorry- I lost track of this thread for a bit.</p><p></p><p>I agree with everything Marine has said. This difference between RG6 and RG59 for a</p><p></p><p>short component video run won't matter as much as the quality of the wire. Steer</p><p></p><p>clear of the ultra cheap generic cables. I would recommend Belden 1506A or 1694A.</p><p></p><p>Neither of these are particularly expensive in bulk. From Mouser the 1694 is $70/100ft,</p><p></p><p>the 1506 is slightly more. If you don't have the equipment to crimp connectors on you</p><p></p><p>can always solder. One tip- run some PVC conduit everywhere you think a wire might go.</p><p></p><p>The home audio and home theater technology is changing but your room won't. This will</p><p></p><p>allow you to change the types of cables you are using without tearing up your room</p><p></p><p>again and again. Be sure the conduit is big enough to take a DVI connector at</p><p></p><p>a minimum.</p><p></p><p>Larry Fine</p><p></p><p>09-04-04, 07:05 PM</p><p></p><p>Originally posted by Larry Fine</p><p></p><p>If it were me, I'd specify an all-copper RG-59 for any interconnect other than RF.</p><p></p><p>I said it before, the Marine backed it up, and I'll say it again:</p><p></p><p>"If it were me, I'd specify an all-copper RG-59 for any interconnect other than RF."</p><p></p><p>RG-6 is better for RF use (even though I have dual RG-59's feeding my dual-tuner</p><p></p><p>D-TiVo's), but for audio and video, all-copper RG-59 is better. As long as you're</p><p></p><p>bothering, why not use what's better for the intended use?</p><p></p><p>Larry Fine</p><p></p><p>09-04-04, 08:22 PM</p><p></p><p>Originally posted by Bill Lummus</p><p></p><p>Larry- How about giving some specific examples. Not sure what you mean.</p><p></p><p>Examples of when I'd spec one or the other? Okay:</p><p></p><p>If I were wiring for cable, satellite, radio, or any other radio-frequency use</p><p></p><p>(basically anywhere F-connectors would be used), I'd want RG-6. For composite,</p><p></p><p>S-video, or component video, or analog or digital audio (basically anywhere RCA</p><p></p><p>plugs would be used (except for S-video-to-dual-coax)), I'd prefer a good RG-59.</p><p></p><p>In my opinion, RG-6 is only beneficial at radio frequencies. The thicker dielectric</p><p></p><p>and quad shielding do not lessen signal losses for any other signals.</p><p></p><p>RF signals are in the microvolt range, where reactances have a greater effect</p><p></p><p>on the signal, while audio and video are in the millivolt range, where I^2R losses</p><p></p><p>matter more. Copper is a better conductor than copper-clad steel</p><p></p><p>(except again, for RF, where skin-effect makes the core material moot), and it's</p><p></p><p>also a better conductor than aluminum. Some people call RF "magical", because it</p><p></p><p>seems to defy the laws of physics. Audio and video seem to behave a little more</p><p></p><p>"logically", electrically speaking. Plus, all-copper cable can be soldered,</p><p></p><p>and RG-59 is thinner and more flexible, and it's easier to find RCA connectors to</p><p></p><p>fit without adapters. I'd rather avoid adapters when possible; not because I'm</p><p></p><p>worried about "the extra connection" issues (if I were, I'd solder everything),</p><p></p><p>but to reduce plug and jack strain. YMMV, of course.</p><p></p><p>DominoGold</p><p></p><p>09-04-04, 08:59 PM</p><p></p><p>Interesting discussion here.... the thing I'm struggling with is the general</p><p></p><p>perception that RG59 is "old" and RG6 is the newer and better cable to use for</p><p></p><p>everything.</p><p></p><p>For example, this thread basically summarizes everything people have told me</p><p></p><p>up until now.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.handymanwire.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB2&amp;Number=104966&amp;page=19&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=11&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1" target="_blank">http://www.handymanwire.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB2&amp;Number=104966&amp;page=19&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=11&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1</a></p><p></p><p>Marine2800</p><p></p><p>09-04-04, 09:32 PM</p><p></p><p>For the signals and length of transmission you are describing the cable size is</p><p></p><p>really irrelevant. A 26 AWG micro coax with a tinned copper center and tinned</p><p></p><p>copper braid will perform adequately. I would recommend a beefier mini though, like</p><p></p><p>Belden 1855A or an equivalent. These perform superbly to 300 feet on the above signals.</p><p></p><p>They save a lot of space in a conduit and can be purchased in multiples under one jacket.</p><p></p><p>RG6 Serial digital - Belden 1694A 3 GHz/100 feet = 10.67 dB loss</p><p></p><p>RG59 Serial digital - Belden 1505A 3 GHz/100 feet = 13.40 dB loss</p><p></p><p>This sure does not appear to be twice the performance. For base band style video</p><p></p><p>signals such as composite, component, S-Video, and RGBHV the RG59 will easily carry</p><p></p><p>the signal as far as you want it.</p><p></p><p>I would not consider using an aluminum braid shielded product for any base band style</p><p></p><p>signal. Also as a bonus – these make excellent line level audio interconnects too where</p><p></p><p>the RG6 CATV cable will not. RG6 CCTV (bare copper center and bare copper braid) is</p><p></p><p>great for this application too. RG59 is not going anywhere anytime soon.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="thylantyr, post: 2200185, member: 560358"] [B]RG6 vs. RG59 debate [/B] [B]Standard RG6 Quad Shield for Component Cables? [/B] [URL="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-438868.html"]http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-438868.html[/URL] Larry Fine 08-25-04, 09:58 PM If it were me, I'd specify an all-copper RG-59 for any interconnect other than RF. Larry Fine 08-26-04, 09:14 PM The only functional difference between the two is loss over distance for RF use, and we're talking in the tens or hundreds of feet for the difference to become significant. All-copper RG-59 is thinner and more flexible, easier to find RCAs for, and possible to solder them. Bill Lummus 08-27-04, 07:30 PM There was a thread here several months ago where it was revealed, correctly so I believe, that the triple shielded RG6 actually provided better noise rejection than the quad shielded. There is a writeup about this on Belden's website. I think their brand name for the good triple shielded cable is duobond. I'd look for that. It's cheap and easy to get. I think you can find the exact numbers on blue jean cables website, they use it too. DominoGold 08-28-04, 04:26 PM I snuck into another house under construction to see the type of RG6 they used. It looked like copper rated at 350 Mhz and said "HDTV" labed right on the white cable. This this is good enough for component cables? Bill Lummus 08-29-04, 06:44 PM I don't think so. Why not get some of the >1 GHz Belden cable. It's cheap and very good. You can never have too much bandwidth! And be sure that RCA's is what you need for the TV. Some plasmas come with BNCs. Marine2800 09-01-04, 10:51 PM Hi folks, Just weighing in with some information on the subject. I am an industry professional and give tech advice to installers, end-users, dealers, and specifying engineers everyday regarding cable and wire applications in the Home Theater, Integration and broadcast market. A standard CCTV RG59 can transmit these signals perfectly over significant distances. I have used coaxial cables as small as 26 AWG micro cables for transmitting these signals clearly out to 150 feet. The only issue that may arise in long distances is the timing of the cables. A TDR would be required to measure and cut the cables to synchronize the timing. I have seen this start to happen at distances around 250 feet. Composite, Component, S-Video are all baseband style video signals, a copper/copper coaxial cable is the preferred construction for these signals. The braid can be tinned copper also as in Belden¡¯s 1694A. Copper clad steel center conductors, aluminum foil, and aluminum braid shields are not recommended for this type of application. I have had multiple occasions where people have used RG6 quad shield for rack interconnects and had issues with picture problems, replacing the cables corrected the problems immediately. A copper center conductor, aluminum foil shield, and copper braid is acceptable also. Regarding the connector question, there are many non-solder style RCA plugs on the market. These are compression crimp versions. The tooling is somewhat expensive so if you are only terminating a couple of cables, solder style is cheaper. If I sound like a know-it-all you have my permission to slap me [IMG]//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif[/IMG] Marine2800 09-02-04, 09:48 PM I recommend using a cable constructed for the baseband signals. Steer away from aluminum braid shield as in RG6-Quad and dual shield CATV cable. One gentleman I walked through an image problem had 15 foot RG6-Quad runs with RCA¡¯s on a rack. The quad shield was a bare copper center conductor and aluminum braid shields. We replaced the cable with some quickly constructed RG59 serial digital cable (Liberty Interflex-sd - a non-UL version of Belden 1505A) and radial compression RCA¡¯s and he was in business with a perfect display. I ran tests on his old cables and found they were perfectly fine as far as RF performance. Your standard component video interconnects are usually copper/copper and work fine for the low frequencies involved. For the distance you are running a component video interconnect cable is fine. If you have a source for the RCA plugs and 75 feet of RG59 CCTV cable then you can construct them yourself. DominoGold 09-03-04, 03:34 PM I think my low-voltage contactor only uses RG6 for everything, and specifically warned me against using RG59 for anything. So, I'm confused. Marine2800 09-03-04, 09:21 PM Do not be confused. RG59 is just a smaller coax with slightly higher attenuation loss. As a guide for example: A serial digital RG6 will successfully transmit a 37 MHz signal up to 377 feet before the -3 dB threshold is reached. A serial digital RG59 will reach 265 feet before the -3 dB loss is reached. Your contractor probably has loads of RG6 and has to recoup his investment. Bill Lummus 09-04-04, 08:34 AM Sorry- I lost track of this thread for a bit. I agree with everything Marine has said. This difference between RG6 and RG59 for a short component video run won't matter as much as the quality of the wire. Steer clear of the ultra cheap generic cables. I would recommend Belden 1506A or 1694A. Neither of these are particularly expensive in bulk. From Mouser the 1694 is $70/100ft, the 1506 is slightly more. If you don't have the equipment to crimp connectors on you can always solder. One tip- run some PVC conduit everywhere you think a wire might go. The home audio and home theater technology is changing but your room won't. This will allow you to change the types of cables you are using without tearing up your room again and again. Be sure the conduit is big enough to take a DVI connector at a minimum. Larry Fine 09-04-04, 07:05 PM Originally posted by Larry Fine If it were me, I'd specify an all-copper RG-59 for any interconnect other than RF. I said it before, the Marine backed it up, and I'll say it again: "If it were me, I'd specify an all-copper RG-59 for any interconnect other than RF." RG-6 is better for RF use (even though I have dual RG-59's feeding my dual-tuner D-TiVo's), but for audio and video, all-copper RG-59 is better. As long as you're bothering, why not use what's better for the intended use? Larry Fine 09-04-04, 08:22 PM Originally posted by Bill Lummus Larry- How about giving some specific examples. Not sure what you mean. Examples of when I'd spec one or the other? Okay: If I were wiring for cable, satellite, radio, or any other radio-frequency use (basically anywhere F-connectors would be used), I'd want RG-6. For composite, S-video, or component video, or analog or digital audio (basically anywhere RCA plugs would be used (except for S-video-to-dual-coax)), I'd prefer a good RG-59. In my opinion, RG-6 is only beneficial at radio frequencies. The thicker dielectric and quad shielding do not lessen signal losses for any other signals. RF signals are in the microvolt range, where reactances have a greater effect on the signal, while audio and video are in the millivolt range, where I^2R losses matter more. Copper is a better conductor than copper-clad steel (except again, for RF, where skin-effect makes the core material moot), and it's also a better conductor than aluminum. Some people call RF "magical", because it seems to defy the laws of physics. Audio and video seem to behave a little more "logically", electrically speaking. Plus, all-copper cable can be soldered, and RG-59 is thinner and more flexible, and it's easier to find RCA connectors to fit without adapters. I'd rather avoid adapters when possible; not because I'm worried about "the extra connection" issues (if I were, I'd solder everything), but to reduce plug and jack strain. YMMV, of course. DominoGold 09-04-04, 08:59 PM Interesting discussion here.... the thing I'm struggling with is the general perception that RG59 is "old" and RG6 is the newer and better cable to use for everything. For example, this thread basically summarizes everything people have told me up until now. [URL="http://www.handymanwire.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB2&Number=104966&page=19&view=collapsed&sb=11&o=&fpart=1"]http://www.handymanwire.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB2&Number=104966&page=19&view=collapsed&sb=11&o=&fpart=1[/URL] Marine2800 09-04-04, 09:32 PM For the signals and length of transmission you are describing the cable size is really irrelevant. A 26 AWG micro coax with a tinned copper center and tinned copper braid will perform adequately. I would recommend a beefier mini though, like Belden 1855A or an equivalent. These perform superbly to 300 feet on the above signals. They save a lot of space in a conduit and can be purchased in multiples under one jacket. RG6 Serial digital - Belden 1694A 3 GHz/100 feet = 10.67 dB loss RG59 Serial digital - Belden 1505A 3 GHz/100 feet = 13.40 dB loss This sure does not appear to be twice the performance. For base band style video signals such as composite, component, S-Video, and RGBHV the RG59 will easily carry the signal as far as you want it. I would not consider using an aluminum braid shielded product for any base band style signal. Also as a bonus – these make excellent line level audio interconnects too where the RG6 CATV cable will not. RG6 CCTV (bare copper center and bare copper braid) is great for this application too. RG59 is not going anywhere anytime soon. [/QUOTE]
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