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<blockquote data-quote="RobGMN" data-source="post: 8884529" data-attributes="member: 683408"><p>OK, tell me EXACTLY how Trump's previous attempts at tariffs:</p><p>1. Halted the the flow of drugs into our country.</p><p>2. Halted the demand for drugs by our citizens.</p><p>3. Increased US manufacturing.</p><p>4. Increased our exports.</p><p>5. Decreased illegal immigration into the US.</p><p></p><p>I want to see numbers, not memes, not empty claims/talking points/repetition of others' claims.</p><p>Show me the facts and figures for each metric.</p><p></p><p>Wll, the war cry is that the new tariffs Trump wants to try will cause exports from other countries into the US to decrease. We will make more goods for ourselves, while continuing to make goods to export to the world.</p><p>That would be growth, as opposed to a zero-sum exchange.</p><p></p><p>BUT when his tariffs hit, we ended up with fewer exports AND fewer manufacturing jobs. That was the opposite of what the tariffs were supposed to do (not to mention the end of illegal drugs and immigrants coming here).</p><p></p><p>This chart (courtesy World Bank)is for goods only, not goods and services. You can see where things took a turn, COVID nothwithstanding.</p><p>Tariffs were supposed to increase exports. What happened?</p><p>[ATTACH=full]61658[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is from BLS.</p><p>You can see where things took a turn, COVID notwithstanding.</p><p>[ATTACH=full]61659[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>Manufacturing jobs increased, then started to decline (not just stagnate) again before COVID killed them.</p><p></p><p>Obviously not part of the plan. What happened?:</p><p></p><p></p><p>I tried, but the links just open the page where I can build my own charts, instead of linking to a pdf, even though your link ends in "pdf".</p><p>I think that's a Chrome browser plugin thing where it wants to link to a file on the "creator's" PC.</p><p></p><p>Exactly. Why do we think that we are going to force Canada and Mexico to keep people IN their country?</p><p>Show me one border checkpoint in the USA, Mexico, Canada, China, etc, where the local forces tell you that you may not leave.</p><p>Go to Canada. You can go right to the border without restriction by any US agency. It's the CANADIANS that won't allow you to get IN.</p><p>Now come back. You're free to roam until you hit the border, and the US won't allow you IN.</p><p>That's how borders work.</p><p></p><p>Imagine Trudeau saying to Trump "You must establish a border patrol force that will stop people from leaving the US, so that we don't have to have our own border security". That would be utterly ridiculous.</p><p>Yet it's what Trump wants THEM to do...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RobGMN, post: 8884529, member: 683408"] OK, tell me EXACTLY how Trump's previous attempts at tariffs: 1. Halted the the flow of drugs into our country. 2. Halted the demand for drugs by our citizens. 3. Increased US manufacturing. 4. Increased our exports. 5. Decreased illegal immigration into the US. I want to see numbers, not memes, not empty claims/talking points/repetition of others' claims. Show me the facts and figures for each metric. Wll, the war cry is that the new tariffs Trump wants to try will cause exports from other countries into the US to decrease. We will make more goods for ourselves, while continuing to make goods to export to the world. That would be growth, as opposed to a zero-sum exchange. BUT when his tariffs hit, we ended up with fewer exports AND fewer manufacturing jobs. That was the opposite of what the tariffs were supposed to do (not to mention the end of illegal drugs and immigrants coming here). This chart (courtesy World Bank)is for goods only, not goods and services. You can see where things took a turn, COVID nothwithstanding. Tariffs were supposed to increase exports. What happened? [ATTACH type="full" width="619px"]61658[/ATTACH] This is from BLS. You can see where things took a turn, COVID notwithstanding. [ATTACH type="full" width="613px"]61659[/ATTACH] Manufacturing jobs increased, then started to decline (not just stagnate) again before COVID killed them. Obviously not part of the plan. What happened?: I tried, but the links just open the page where I can build my own charts, instead of linking to a pdf, even though your link ends in "pdf". I think that's a Chrome browser plugin thing where it wants to link to a file on the "creator's" PC. Exactly. Why do we think that we are going to force Canada and Mexico to keep people IN their country? Show me one border checkpoint in the USA, Mexico, Canada, China, etc, where the local forces tell you that you may not leave. Go to Canada. You can go right to the border without restriction by any US agency. It's the CANADIANS that won't allow you to get IN. Now come back. You're free to roam until you hit the border, and the US won't allow you IN. That's how borders work. Imagine Trudeau saying to Trump "You must establish a border patrol force that will stop people from leaving the US, so that we don't have to have our own border security". That would be utterly ridiculous. Yet it's what Trump wants THEM to do... [/QUOTE]
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