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Concert type bass in car?
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<blockquote data-quote="T3mpest" data-source="post: 8115914" data-attributes="member: 560148"><p>IDK why everyone seems to really think their car audio systems compare AT ALL to what you hear at a good concert. I just got back from a large dubstep festival and there is hardly a comparision to any car I've ever heard, even the ones doing over 150's on music, at least if you can get with 30 feet of the speakers..</p><p></p><p>Main advantage concerts have is also their biggest disadvantage. The lack of a small environment means it's harder to get loud, but they have nearly unlimited space, budgets and power to make up for it.. They also gain their main advantage, a lack of rattles. In cars when you play a 30hz tone your car rattles. Those rattles have higher order distortion characteristics, so they sound higher in tone. That's why concert bass, especially dub step sounds so loud and low vs most car setups. 30hz sound much different when it's being played clean. I've had some fairly quiet cars rattle wise and have gotten close on some notes, but honestly, this is the HARDEST part to get right. You need to be approaching 150db's without any rattling.</p><p></p><p>Second advantage as MLSTRASS alluded to, is the speakers used. Pro audio speakers, despite what man on here think are very nice. They handle ALOT of power (even by car audio standards) and have enough xmax to not run out of steam in ported/horn type cabinets, plus they have lots of room for the box like I said. Back to the main point here though, the speakers aren't designed to play down to 20hz. It's not even put into consideration. They need musical output down to 30hz and up as high as they can get. Many Pro audio subs can play 30-200hz at very high SPL's. Car's make lower end bass louder, but not upper end and most companies build subs to "murder the lows". That leads to heavy coils that have too much inductance to even play past 60hz in some cases.. No little midbass in your door is going to make up the difference lol.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, some concert setups are just SILLY, even beyond ANYTHING in car audio. Bassnectar (my fav dubstep artist) is a great example. The cabs he uses for bass are dual 18 cabinets, using 18sound drivers, I believe. Approx 2000 watts/speaker all day long no issue, more for peaks. Again, inductance is low its probably 100db/1w/1m efficient all the way from 120-200hz. A single cabinet like this can do upper 130's lower 140's within a few feet of the speakers. Bassnectar uses something silly like 30 of these for each side at a concert, with highs to match it. To put it into perspective when they played va va voom, I was literally a football field away. The concert field was a football stadium, I was at the back end, stage was on the other end of the stands, so 100+ yards away. During va va voom their was a dynamic peak that actually very slightly hurt my ears for a split second.. Again, I blare my highs at 115db's+ without feeling discomfort anymore so that peak had to be over 120 at 100 yards away of TREBLE.. Then you've got car audio bassracing 130s in a car within 30 feet with BASS and feeling like badasses, it's a joke..</p><p></p><p>A very good car setup could approach a smaller dubstep setup in the nearfield environment, but it'd be hard. I'm probably going to be giving in a shot this year, but I fully expect I'll still be missing certain elements when it's done. 2 21 subwoofers on 5kw in a 6th order bandpass and a 3 way frontstage using very high effeciency 8inch drivers and horns in kick panels, probably about 1300 watts to the frontstage.. And I fully expect to come up short.. Anyone else with 2 12's in the trunk and some components in the doors want to talk about how their setup is better than pro audio again?</p><p></p><p>Anyway to help OP,</p><p></p><p>1.deaden any rattling panels</p><p></p><p>2. Find a sub that can take power AND play above 60hz well</p><p></p><p>3. High powered frontstage, use pro audio drivers, good ones, and not in the doors either lol.</p><p></p><p>That'll get you alot closer than 99% of the cars out there, even alot of SPL vehicles in terms of the actual sound, even if it lacks some intensity.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="T3mpest, post: 8115914, member: 560148"] IDK why everyone seems to really think their car audio systems compare AT ALL to what you hear at a good concert. I just got back from a large dubstep festival and there is hardly a comparision to any car I've ever heard, even the ones doing over 150's on music, at least if you can get with 30 feet of the speakers.. Main advantage concerts have is also their biggest disadvantage. The lack of a small environment means it's harder to get loud, but they have nearly unlimited space, budgets and power to make up for it.. They also gain their main advantage, a lack of rattles. In cars when you play a 30hz tone your car rattles. Those rattles have higher order distortion characteristics, so they sound higher in tone. That's why concert bass, especially dub step sounds so loud and low vs most car setups. 30hz sound much different when it's being played clean. I've had some fairly quiet cars rattle wise and have gotten close on some notes, but honestly, this is the HARDEST part to get right. You need to be approaching 150db's without any rattling. Second advantage as MLSTRASS alluded to, is the speakers used. Pro audio speakers, despite what man on here think are very nice. They handle ALOT of power (even by car audio standards) and have enough xmax to not run out of steam in ported/horn type cabinets, plus they have lots of room for the box like I said. Back to the main point here though, the speakers aren't designed to play down to 20hz. It's not even put into consideration. They need musical output down to 30hz and up as high as they can get. Many Pro audio subs can play 30-200hz at very high SPL's. Car's make lower end bass louder, but not upper end and most companies build subs to "murder the lows". That leads to heavy coils that have too much inductance to even play past 60hz in some cases.. No little midbass in your door is going to make up the difference lol. Anyway, some concert setups are just SILLY, even beyond ANYTHING in car audio. Bassnectar (my fav dubstep artist) is a great example. The cabs he uses for bass are dual 18 cabinets, using 18sound drivers, I believe. Approx 2000 watts/speaker all day long no issue, more for peaks. Again, inductance is low its probably 100db/1w/1m efficient all the way from 120-200hz. A single cabinet like this can do upper 130's lower 140's within a few feet of the speakers. Bassnectar uses something silly like 30 of these for each side at a concert, with highs to match it. To put it into perspective when they played va va voom, I was literally a football field away. The concert field was a football stadium, I was at the back end, stage was on the other end of the stands, so 100+ yards away. During va va voom their was a dynamic peak that actually very slightly hurt my ears for a split second.. Again, I blare my highs at 115db's+ without feeling discomfort anymore so that peak had to be over 120 at 100 yards away of TREBLE.. Then you've got car audio bassracing 130s in a car within 30 feet with BASS and feeling like badasses, it's a joke.. A very good car setup could approach a smaller dubstep setup in the nearfield environment, but it'd be hard. I'm probably going to be giving in a shot this year, but I fully expect I'll still be missing certain elements when it's done. 2 21 subwoofers on 5kw in a 6th order bandpass and a 3 way frontstage using very high effeciency 8inch drivers and horns in kick panels, probably about 1300 watts to the frontstage.. And I fully expect to come up short.. Anyone else with 2 12's in the trunk and some components in the doors want to talk about how their setup is better than pro audio again? Anyway to help OP, 1.deaden any rattling panels 2. Find a sub that can take power AND play above 60hz well 3. High powered frontstage, use pro audio drivers, good ones, and not in the doors either lol. That'll get you alot closer than 99% of the cars out there, even alot of SPL vehicles in terms of the actual sound, even if it lacks some intensity. [/QUOTE]
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