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Subwoofers
Break in period for subs
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<blockquote data-quote="hispls" data-source="post: 8754222" data-attributes="member: 614752"><p>2-3dB gain seems as unlikely as TS parameters changing that much after only a minute and a half of play at 50W. That is so unusual if it were me I'd buy a couple more of those subs to do more careful/thorough testing.</p><p></p><p>Dunno what their ratings were but spiders failing prematurely was a somewhat commonly problem for Audioque in their early days and "you didn't break it in" was a cop-out they used often when presented with returns on things that had failed. Oddly enough since their first generation of subs we stopped reading about spiders tearing so either everybody is now properly "breaking in" their subs or they sorted their **** out with the shoddy Chinese parts since then. </p><p>I'm not looking to argue, I'm demanding evidence to prove dubious claims.</p><p></p><p>Why take this personal? If you had time to scour my post history I've called ******** on this "break in" thing every time the topic has come up around here. You started by making claims about this "break in" pheomenon, I declared ******** without proof. Burden of proof is on the person who makes a claim.</p><p></p><p>Again, nobody has attempted to contradict this, but the question is how much and over how much time? Show data to prove this is meaningful for practical purposes.</p><p></p><p>I'm still waiting on you to give me the names of a few non slowed or re-bassed songs that contain 25hz material. Seriously though, no I do not, but if your point is break in only matters at 25hz, why bring up DD as your evidence when their stuff is NOT designed to tune that low? Do you have any evidence or hard data to prove your claims?</p><p></p><p>Are you claiming that TS parameters do not predict the output of a woofer in a box? "It sounded better" is absolutely anecdotal and subjective as opposed to objective evidence which could be proven with some recorded data.</p><p></p><p>No, but give me the names of some non slowed commercial release music and I may give it a whirl. How precisely does this matter?</p><p></p><p>Again if you're claiming some audible difference that somehow cannot be predicted or shown by changes to TS parameters, post up some before and after RTA graphs or Termlab numbers for proof and do not forget to note after how much and what kind of play time and at what power these changes take place.</p><p></p><p>Correct. Are you claiming that some "break in" ritual is needed to prevent subs from breaking or are you claiming that there will be some audible difference in output and/or response after some conditions have been met? Or do you claim both? DO you claim that this is with any speakers or only with certain types/brands? </p><p></p><p>The fact that nobody has nailed any of this down with specifics or any hard data only confirms my assertion that this is largely just pixie dust, unicorn tears, and tribal rain dances. Until I am shown some hard evidence to the contrary I'll go on with my belief that the vast majority of change in compliance in those ultra stiff woofers happens within only minutes of hard play (up to x-max) and that if your sub is failing right out the gate it is from poor parts or build quality or outright abuse and not because someone didn't perform the right ritual beforehand. Furthermore I will continue to demand proof of claims, and if such proof exists you wouldn't need to write three or four text walls in reply but would simply link some videos of side by side testing or some recorded data to prove this claim.</p><p></p><p>Some links on the topic that provide measured data. My apologies if they use TS parameters as evidence.</p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction[/URL]</p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction-page-2[/URL]</p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]http://matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_rodajealtavoces.htm[/URL]</p><p>Responses from several well known manufacturers when asked about "break in". </p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/do-audio-speakers-break-in.11898/[/URL]</p><p>You will notice that the ONLY people on this thread who are posting any measured data are proving that any change over time is inaudible. Another interesting point raised here is that never in the history of loudspeakers are any of these "break in" changes for the worse but always make things sound better. </p><p></p><p>An interesting message posted here by Dr. Sean Olive of Harmon International:</p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.stereophile.com/content/breaking-new-speakers-4[/URL]</p><p>Of course this is followed up by all the subjective feelings of the golden-ear crowd who can really hear the difference 200 hours later, some going as far as to claim a coil will perform differently after some heating and cooling cycles. No lie, there are people who claim amplifiers and even cables need hours of "break in" to really hear nuances and subtleties. Oddly enough nobody who can hear the difference weeks or months later is posting up any hard data by way of RTA graphs or TS parameters changing over time. </p><p></p><p>This topic has been beaten to death for decades now and I have yet to find any hard data provided by the "break in" camp. Post up some real data and not another page worth of subjective opinions and pseudo science.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hispls, post: 8754222, member: 614752"] 2-3dB gain seems as unlikely as TS parameters changing that much after only a minute and a half of play at 50W. That is so unusual if it were me I'd buy a couple more of those subs to do more careful/thorough testing. Dunno what their ratings were but spiders failing prematurely was a somewhat commonly problem for Audioque in their early days and "you didn't break it in" was a cop-out they used often when presented with returns on things that had failed. Oddly enough since their first generation of subs we stopped reading about spiders tearing so either everybody is now properly "breaking in" their subs or they sorted their **** out with the shoddy Chinese parts since then. I'm not looking to argue, I'm demanding evidence to prove dubious claims. Why take this personal? If you had time to scour my post history I've called ******** on this "break in" thing every time the topic has come up around here. You started by making claims about this "break in" pheomenon, I declared ******** without proof. Burden of proof is on the person who makes a claim. Again, nobody has attempted to contradict this, but the question is how much and over how much time? Show data to prove this is meaningful for practical purposes. I'm still waiting on you to give me the names of a few non slowed or re-bassed songs that contain 25hz material. Seriously though, no I do not, but if your point is break in only matters at 25hz, why bring up DD as your evidence when their stuff is NOT designed to tune that low? Do you have any evidence or hard data to prove your claims? Are you claiming that TS parameters do not predict the output of a woofer in a box? "It sounded better" is absolutely anecdotal and subjective as opposed to objective evidence which could be proven with some recorded data. No, but give me the names of some non slowed commercial release music and I may give it a whirl. How precisely does this matter? Again if you're claiming some audible difference that somehow cannot be predicted or shown by changes to TS parameters, post up some before and after RTA graphs or Termlab numbers for proof and do not forget to note after how much and what kind of play time and at what power these changes take place. Correct. Are you claiming that some "break in" ritual is needed to prevent subs from breaking or are you claiming that there will be some audible difference in output and/or response after some conditions have been met? Or do you claim both? DO you claim that this is with any speakers or only with certain types/brands? The fact that nobody has nailed any of this down with specifics or any hard data only confirms my assertion that this is largely just pixie dust, unicorn tears, and tribal rain dances. Until I am shown some hard evidence to the contrary I'll go on with my belief that the vast majority of change in compliance in those ultra stiff woofers happens within only minutes of hard play (up to x-max) and that if your sub is failing right out the gate it is from poor parts or build quality or outright abuse and not because someone didn't perform the right ritual beforehand. Furthermore I will continue to demand proof of claims, and if such proof exists you wouldn't need to write three or four text walls in reply but would simply link some videos of side by side testing or some recorded data to prove this claim. Some links on the topic that provide measured data. My apologies if they use TS parameters as evidence. [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction[/URL] [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction-page-2[/URL] [URL unfurl="true"]http://matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_rodajealtavoces.htm[/URL] Responses from several well known manufacturers when asked about "break in". [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/do-audio-speakers-break-in.11898/[/URL] You will notice that the ONLY people on this thread who are posting any measured data are proving that any change over time is inaudible. Another interesting point raised here is that never in the history of loudspeakers are any of these "break in" changes for the worse but always make things sound better. An interesting message posted here by Dr. Sean Olive of Harmon International: [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.stereophile.com/content/breaking-new-speakers-4[/URL] Of course this is followed up by all the subjective feelings of the golden-ear crowd who can really hear the difference 200 hours later, some going as far as to claim a coil will perform differently after some heating and cooling cycles. No lie, there are people who claim amplifiers and even cables need hours of "break in" to really hear nuances and subtleties. Oddly enough nobody who can hear the difference weeks or months later is posting up any hard data by way of RTA graphs or TS parameters changing over time. This topic has been beaten to death for decades now and I have yet to find any hard data provided by the "break in" camp. Post up some real data and not another page worth of subjective opinions and pseudo science. [/QUOTE]
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