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adding a resistor to crossovers?
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<blockquote data-quote="thylantyr" data-source="post: 1244288" data-attributes="member: 560358"><p><strong>how can i mimick all of that stuff in the crossover? </strong></p><p></p><p>With a digital crossover all of this is easy;</p><p></p><p>*active crossover</p><p></p><p>*parametric EQ</p><p></p><p>*delays</p><p></p><p>*phase control</p><p></p><p>*gain control</p><p></p><p>Making a passive crossover to mimick these;</p><p></p><p>*active crossover {easy}</p><p></p><p>*parametric EQ {hard}</p><p></p><p>*delays {almost impossible}</p><p></p><p>*phase control {almost impossible}</p><p></p><p>*gain control {you can only attenuate with passive, ie LPAD the tweeters,</p><p></p><p>LPAD the midranges, etc., but for higher powered designs the LPAD introduces</p><p></p><p>power losses}.</p><p></p><p>plus, you need a zobel for those odd impedance curves that need to be stabilized, don't need one for active.</p><p></p><p>Sooo... I only see one easy item on that list, the generic crossover. The trick is</p><p></p><p>to pick drivers that will work good with a generic crossover design. If you can</p><p></p><p>find a combination that works without resorting to a steep slope, you reduce</p><p></p><p>crossover parts and cost.</p><p></p><p>If you know you will convert a design to passive then you need to find</p><p></p><p>drivers with less problems 'out of the box' otherwise you will have to</p><p></p><p>add more circuits to fix problems in your passive crossover design, that is where</p><p></p><p>the electronic skill is required. You can also buy software and study how to use</p><p></p><p>it to do this for you. You also might want to measure the drivers if you want</p><p></p><p>more accuracy because if a parameter changes, it will skew the whole design, ie</p><p></p><p>no zobel in a design will cause your crossover frequency to shift and other gremlins.</p><p></p><p>Hypothetical. You like Seas Excel 8" in a MTM design. This design requires a</p><p></p><p>1.5khz - 2khz crossover point {low pass} with a 24dB slope to keep the driver</p><p></p><p>from excitation as the cone break up modes are nasty. Pull a chart on that</p><p></p><p>driver, Seas W22EX001;</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.madisound.com/pdf/seas/e022.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.madisound.com/pdf/seas/e022.pdf</a></p><p></p><p>Some people won't even consider this driver unless the crossover is 1.5khz</p><p></p><p>with a steep slope to 'filter' out that high end crud. Look at the nasty spike</p><p></p><p>at ~5khz.</p><p></p><p>If you use a digital crossover you can use a higher crossover frequency in</p><p></p><p>conjunction with the parametric EQ to fix these problems but translating this</p><p></p><p>'fix' into a passive network would require more skill on the designers part,</p><p></p><p>so your choices would narrow and you might only consider a lower crossover</p><p></p><p>point.</p><p></p><p>There is good news, you can use drivers that have less problems to keep</p><p></p><p>the passive crossover design simpler and those designs can work well. The trick</p><p></p><p>is to find these 'good sounding' drivers.</p><p></p><p>There is alot of comedy in the driver manufacturing business. For instance,</p><p></p><p>Seas Magnesium cones are rated high by audio-geeks in spite that their exotic</p><p></p><p>cone materials are full of gremlins, yet they are always recommended as elite</p><p></p><p>drivers -- are they ?</p><p></p><p>Focal Kevlar, another highly recommended driver. Same thing, nasty cone breakup modes that have to be dealt with. Out of the box, they aren't elite</p><p></p><p>drivers at all unless you tame it's problems.</p><p></p><p>Focal W cones, I have a 6" WM driver with phase plug, this driver has a pretty</p><p></p><p>nice chart but oddly enough, it failed SQ tests all the time during audition. It uses</p><p></p><p>another exotic cone material.</p><p></p><p>Which drivers have I found that sound great in the midrange? treated paper cones. I'm fond of a particular brand, not cheap, but you can email me for details.</p><p></p><p>So... charts tell a tale but not all. You have to audition the drivers to find a winner,</p><p></p><p>trust your ears.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="thylantyr, post: 1244288, member: 560358"] [B]how can i mimick all of that stuff in the crossover? [/B] With a digital crossover all of this is easy; *active crossover *parametric EQ *delays *phase control *gain control Making a passive crossover to mimick these; *active crossover {easy} *parametric EQ {hard} *delays {almost impossible} *phase control {almost impossible} *gain control {you can only attenuate with passive, ie LPAD the tweeters, LPAD the midranges, etc., but for higher powered designs the LPAD introduces power losses}. plus, you need a zobel for those odd impedance curves that need to be stabilized, don't need one for active. Sooo... I only see one easy item on that list, the generic crossover. The trick is to pick drivers that will work good with a generic crossover design. If you can find a combination that works without resorting to a steep slope, you reduce crossover parts and cost. If you know you will convert a design to passive then you need to find drivers with less problems 'out of the box' otherwise you will have to add more circuits to fix problems in your passive crossover design, that is where the electronic skill is required. You can also buy software and study how to use it to do this for you. You also might want to measure the drivers if you want more accuracy because if a parameter changes, it will skew the whole design, ie no zobel in a design will cause your crossover frequency to shift and other gremlins. Hypothetical. You like Seas Excel 8" in a MTM design. This design requires a 1.5khz - 2khz crossover point {low pass} with a 24dB slope to keep the driver from excitation as the cone break up modes are nasty. Pull a chart on that driver, Seas W22EX001; [URL="http://www.madisound.com/pdf/seas/e022.pdf"]http://www.madisound.com/pdf/seas/e022.pdf[/URL] Some people won't even consider this driver unless the crossover is 1.5khz with a steep slope to 'filter' out that high end crud. Look at the nasty spike at ~5khz. If you use a digital crossover you can use a higher crossover frequency in conjunction with the parametric EQ to fix these problems but translating this 'fix' into a passive network would require more skill on the designers part, so your choices would narrow and you might only consider a lower crossover point. There is good news, you can use drivers that have less problems to keep the passive crossover design simpler and those designs can work well. The trick is to find these 'good sounding' drivers. There is alot of comedy in the driver manufacturing business. For instance, Seas Magnesium cones are rated high by audio-geeks in spite that their exotic cone materials are full of gremlins, yet they are always recommended as elite drivers -- are they ? Focal Kevlar, another highly recommended driver. Same thing, nasty cone breakup modes that have to be dealt with. Out of the box, they aren't elite drivers at all unless you tame it's problems. Focal W cones, I have a 6" WM driver with phase plug, this driver has a pretty nice chart but oddly enough, it failed SQ tests all the time during audition. It uses another exotic cone material. Which drivers have I found that sound great in the midrange? treated paper cones. I'm fond of a particular brand, not cheap, but you can email me for details. So... charts tell a tale but not all. You have to audition the drivers to find a winner, trust your ears. [/QUOTE]
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adding a resistor to crossovers?
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