Upgrading Audio System in 2024 Kia Sportage - Need Advice

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Nice... the rears are not so important as they should be set at lower volume anyway so as not to pull the ear back from the front stage. Get the Morel Tempo Ultra 602 Integra 6-1/2" point source coaxials for the rear, more than adequate.

All decent speakers sound decent with a standard HU, None of them sound anything like they do when amplified - night and day. No question, hands down, do it right, do the Morels justice, use that amp! Set the four channel to HP on the crossovers at 100-200 for the rears and 60-70 for the fronts (or both around 60-70hz, play with that)

Same goes for the sub, all that great sound you'll have up front will now seem a little incomplete without a sub. Set the LP filter to around 80-100hz to blend in with the other speakers, set your gains accordingly.

Since you have access to Pioneer, the Z series would work well for you and it takes a fairly small box.

Pioneer TS-Z10LS2 10" 1300 Watts 2 Ohms Car Subwoofer

Pio recommends a .7' box with a 3" x 7.5" port tuned to around 50. i'd stick in a 1 cu ft box tune to 40 which is a 3" port 9.75-10" long. I've actually heard this 10" and it is very nice. Because it is a low profile drivers, you have a lot of options when only 1 cu ft ported is needed.

Even better if you can get it would be the Si SQL series.

For $269 this is an outstanding 12"

SQL Series – StereoIntegrity.com

stereointegrity.com

SQL-12 Specifications​

Re	3.4 Ohms
Fs	27.9 Hz
Qes	0.49
Qms	3.51
Qts	.43
Le	2.0 mH
Sd	82.51 in^2
Vas	29.0 Liters
BL	23.4
Mms	449.8 g
Cms	72.2 uM/N
Xmax	28.4 mm one-way via 70% BL. (56 mm total p-p linear excursion)
SPL	92.0 dB (2.83V/1M) – 1 Ohm operation
Power Handling	1000 watts RMS
Sealed enclosure	0.65 to 1.0 ft^3
Vented enclosure	1.5 ft^3 tuned to 24 Hz. >20 in^2 of port surface area per driver
Cutout	292.1 mm (11.5”)
OD	323.85 mm (12.75”)
Mounting Depth	7.0”
Weight	26 lbs
Displacement	0.15 ft^3
Distance from baffle to top of surround	1.25″
Minimum clearance from top of the surround to a speaker grille	0.5″

 

[uriel250]

Nice... the rears are not so important as they should be set at lower volume anyway so as not to pull the ear back from the front stage. Get the Morel Tempo Ultra 602 Integra 6-1/2" point source coaxials for the rear, more than adequate.

All decent speakers sound decent with a standard HU, None of them sound anything like they do when amplified - night and day. No question, hands down, do it right, do the Morels justice, use that amp! Set the four channel to HP on the crossovers at 100-200 for the rears and 60-70 for the fronts (or both around 60-70hz, play with that)

Same goes for the sub, all that great sound you'll have up front will now seem a little incomplete without a sub. Set the LP filter to around 80-100hz to blend in with the other speakers, set your gains accordingly.

Since you have access to Pioneer, the Z series would work well for you and it takes a fairly small box.

Pioneer TS-Z10LS2 10" 1300 Watts 2 Ohms Car Subwoofer

Pio recommends a .7' box with a 3" x 7.5" port tuned to around 50. i'd stick in a 1 cu ft box tune to 40 which is a 3" port 9.75-10" long. I've actually heard this 10" and it is very nice. Because it is a low profile drivers, you have a lot of options when only 1 cu ft ported is needed.

Even better if you can get it would be the Si SQL series.

For $269 this is an outstanding 12"

SQL Series – StereoIntegrity.com

stereointegrity.com

SQL-12 Specifications​

Re	3.4 Ohms
Fs	27.9 Hz
Qes	0.49
Qms	3.51
Qts	.43
Le	2.0 mH
Sd	82.51 in^2
Vas	29.0 Liters
BL	23.4
Mms	449.8 g
Cms	72.2 uM/N
Xmax	28.4 mm one-way via 70% BL. (56 mm total p-p linear excursion)
SPL	92.0 dB (2.83V/1M) – 1 Ohm operation
Power Handling	1000 watts RMS
Sealed enclosure	0.65 to 1.0 ft^3
Vented enclosure	1.5 ft^3 tuned to 24 Hz. >20 in^2 of port surface area per driver
Cutout	292.1 mm (11.5”)
OD	323.85 mm (12.75”)
Mounting Depth	7.0”
Weight	26 lbs
Displacement	0.15 ft^3
Distance from baffle to top of surround	1.25″
Minimum clearance from top of the surround to a speaker grille	0.5″

This model is unavailable here, I will have to find something else.

סאב וופר לרכב | אלכסנדר

סאב וופר לרכב

www.alexsander.co.il

Check this out and lmk what's good up to 600-800NIS (Less is better, I think I will spend most of my budget on components).
I just spoke with a shop now and they suggested me to spend my budget on a better quality speakers than the Tempos ("Because they are Morels low range"), they said the Virtus/Hybrids and above are awesome ($440 for Hybrid component), and then put some cheap JBL or something $50 rear speakers.
What do you think?
EDIT: After a bit more research, I was told by 2 shops that a DSP is a must in that car, because Kia screwed up the original HU.
I think I am gonna have to spend no less than $1000.
Should I go with a brand new amp with built in DSP or just an external seperate DSP and my old Rockford Fosgate T400-4?

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

On those subs, get the most you can within the budget. Those tube style Pioneers and RFs are probably pretty decent. I've heard the bazookas, and for what you pay, pretty good decent. Just make sure you get one that isn;t amplified and use the Alpine for that duty.

As for the Morel, yes, the ones that you have picked out are in the lower echelons of what Morel offers, and on a par with other products in that range. If you go with the more expensive lines, be sure to find the ones that have the Acuflex coated tweeters, they are what differentiates Morels from the pack. As for rear fill, I never use a different brand, ore specifically, the tweeter material. Intruding a different driver in the rear introduces a different sound signature (timbre) and that is a distraction, not a compliment. The Morel Maximo Coax 6 would be the inexpensive go to in that case. Same tweeter material, inexpensive and from the same company. Cross them over around 100, good to go.

I think that the amplifiers that you have are fine and will do the job. If you want to add DSP, look at adding a Helix DSP mini, or the Dayton Audio DSP-408. A decent 4/6 - 4/8 channel in/out DSP amplifier is going to run you about the same or a lot more and your already have good amplification in the Alpine and the RF. Better to invest that amount in a really good DSP like the Helix. Keep in mind that the DSP selection opens up a whole new aspect to the build. It requires that you know how to use the DSP software, requires a calibration mic (if not included, (relatively inexpensive calibration microphones are $40-$100) to analyze the sound and then the ability to manipulate the software to achieve the sound goal - OR - pay a tidy sum to someone else to do the tuning for you (usually around $400-$600)

The other option would be to get a good HU for about that price, one that may have a scaled down DSP/time alignment function and will be of a higher fidelity that the HU you have. That would be the simpler option and one that most are more than happy with when everything is said and done. I'm not the go to on HUs, I'm an old school CD paying machine. I have yet to find a better sound than what a pioneer DEH 80/880prs or a DEX-99 can put out with there Burr-brown DACs via CD playback.

 

[uriel250]

On those subs, get the most you can within the budget. Those tube style Pioneers and RFs are probably pretty decent. I've heard the bazookas, and for what you pay, pretty good decent. Just make sure you get one that isn;t amplified and use the Alpine for that duty.

As for the Morel, yes, the ones that you have picked out are in the lower echelons of what Morel offers, and on a par with other products in that range. If you go with the more expensive lines, be sure to find the ones that have the Acuflex coated tweeters, they are what differentiates Morels from the pack. As for rear fill, I never use a different brand, ore specifically, the tweeter material. Intruding a different driver in the rear introduces a different sound signature (timbre) and that is a distraction, not a compliment. The Morel Maximo Coax 6 would be the inexpensive go to in that case. Same tweeter material, inexpensive and from the same company. Cross them over around 100, good to go.

I think that the amplifiers that you have are fine and will do the job. If you want to add DSP, look at adding a Helix DSP mini, or the Dayton Audio DSP-408. A decent 4/6 - 4/8 channel in/out DSP amplifier is going to run you about the same or a lot more and your already have good amplification in the Alpine and the RF. Better to invest that amount in a really good DSP like the Helix. Keep in mind that the DSP selection opens up a whole new aspect to the build. It requires that you know how to use the DSP software, requires a calibration mic (if not included, (relatively inexpensive calibration microphones are $40-$100) to analyze the sound and then the ability to manipulate the software to achieve the sound goal - OR - pay a tidy sum to someone else to do the tuning for you (usually around $400-$600)

The other option would be to get a good HU for about that price, one that may have a scaled down DSP/time alignment function and will be of a higher fidelity that the HU you have. That would be the simpler option and one that most are more than happy with when everything is said and done. I'm not the go to on HUs, I'm an old school CD paying machine. I have yet to find a better sound than what a pioneer DEH 80/880prs or a DEX-99 can put out with there Burr-brown DACs via CD playback.

I can't replace the Headunit, it's the whole 30inch~ screen with the speedometer connected to it (1 long screen) and the original headunit also controls all the safety systems in the car ...

I was actually told by the local shop that if I buy Helix DSP or Helix amp with DSP built in from them - the authorized Helix dealer will send their rep to make proper adjustments and calibrate my system after the shop finishes the installation.
They even said my Rockford Fosgate T400-4 is an "old" and "weak" amp, so better sell it and get Helix amp with built in DSP.
They said if my amp had an "high level input" then they could get some decent quality out of it without installing DSP.

But for $100 less than the price of the Helix DSP I can get the Rockford DSP1 but I will have to calibrate it on my own.
Btw, do you know what's difference between Helix DSP Mini and Helix DSP Mini MK2? The MK2 is slightly more expesnive.

For the sub, I decided to stay with the old Hertz HX300D sub that we got, however I will order tomorrow a smaller sealed box because it currently sits in a very large ported box.
For the speakers, I will either get some Hertz MPK 165.3P Pro components and Hertz MPX 165.3 Pro rears OR Morel Hybrids 602 (without rears/cheap rears) or Tempo Ultra MK2 with rears of the same type.
Is the Hertz combo "better" than the morel combo or 602 hybrids? I was told that the 602 hybrids are discontinued but they still sell them while supply lasts and replaced by the Hybrid 62 (2x the price of 602, out of my budget).

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

First - "They said if my amp had an "high level input" then they could get some decent quality out of it without installing DSP."

That is just bonkers, one uses high level inputs only when they don;t have another option, not sure where they were going with that , makes absolutely no sense.

I hear ya on that (the one you have, wasn't sure which) HU, it'd be a chore and expensive for sure.

As for the two Helix units, I don't recall the difference between the two Helix units, most likely marginal and a newer version of the same. I have read on the various sites on the RD1 and its mostly favorable but not when compared to the Helix. Helix is the current intent boner and has been for a while and is considered one of if not best in it's class. Don't let anyone selling RF to talk you out of it, Helix is a rock sold product. I would have gone for the helix myself, the $1200 pricetag killed that when I was able to pick up the AudioContorl DM810, remote and BT adapter for $600, a display unit from a local shop that was going out of business.

Nobody here is going to take the RD1 over the helix to save a $100. I could not get the particulars on the chips used in the RF or the processing power, etc. The support for the Helix is outstanding as is AudioControl. Brand new firmware with the AC is atop down new release and it's very good. You'll find very little to no truly negative Helix reviews in these forums compared to others.

As for the Sub, it's a great product. Make sure to get 1 lb of Acosta-stuf (1 lb per cubic ft of airspace) and stuff the chamber as it improves the overall performance, makes a difference.

As for the components, get the hybrids if you can, they use the Acuflex coated tweeters and they are steller! The cheap morels for the back should be fine. Even the Hertz in the same price range are not as good. There is a reason why the Piccolos go for a grand, ACUFLEX! Lol, jk, but you get my drift.

BTW, the RF T400-4 is as good as most any other 60x4 amplifier out there and better than most. Last time I looked they are still selling for $400 stateside, nothing to sneeze at. Rock solid amplifier. In order to increase the volume of any speaker you use by a mere 3db you would have to go to a 120x4, another 3db, 240 x 4, another 3db, 480x4 and that last one would double the volume (roughly 9db) to the ear. Unless you're ready to plunk down some serious $$ for something like the Sundown 1000.4 (350x4 4) or any other 250+ x 4, use the rockford. it's class A/B, geared to SQ output and is built like a tank. Always amazed when I go into shops and they try to explain why 100x4 is so much better without knowing any of the math behind it; a real turn off.

Not sure what is in your neck of the woods for less than the RF that puts out 125x4 which is the logical next consideration. If you can sell the RF and make enough to soften the burden, let me know which brands you are thinking of an I'll tell you what I think. The beauty of 40 years in this hobby is that I;m not here hyping products that I carry, just sharing many years of custom build experience.

Keep in mind, you up the output of the four channel, that changes the speakers too. With proper DSP tuning and crossing the rears over in a narrower band that the fronts, you will get plenty of sound from the Morels using the RF and the hertz sub powered by the Alpine.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Still perplexed about that high level comment. Until recently, you would not even find high level inputs on the better equipment. HU integration on a lot of the new cars in the last 10 years has changed the need and Hi level on a lot of gear is becoming more common place, overcomes the cost of using line out converters. It has nothing to do with DSP or tuning, nothing whatsoever other than an alternate way to get the signal from the HU when there isn't any low level RCA option, which in the case of the DSP amp or stand alone DSP, isn't an issue, they have the hi-level built in and convert it to low level out for the amps.

 

[uriel250]

First - "They said if my amp had an "high level input" then they could get some decent quality out of it without installing DSP."

That is just bonkers, one uses high level inputs only when they don;t have another option, not sure where they were going with that , makes absolutely no sense.

I hear ya on that (the one you have, wasn't sure which) HU, it'd be a chore and expensive for sure.

As for the two Helix units, I don't recall the difference between the two Helix units, most likely marginal and a newer version of the same. I have read on the various sites on the RD1 and its mostly favorable but not when compared to the Helix. Helix is the current intent boner and has been for a while and is considered one of if not best in it's class. Don't let anyone selling RF to talk you out of it, Helix is a rock sold product. I would have gone for the helix myself, the $1200 pricetag killed that when I was able to pick up the AudioContorl DM810, remote and BT adapter for $600, a display unit from a local shop that was going out of business.

Nobody here is going to take the RD1 over the helix to save a $100. I could not get the particulars on the chips used in the RF or the processing power, etc. The support for the Helix is outstanding as is AudioControl. Brand new firmware with the AC is atop down new release and it's very good. You'll find very little to no truly negative Helix reviews in these forums compared to others.

As for the Sub, it's a great product. Make sure to get 1 lb of Acosta-stuf (1 lb per cubic ft of airspace) and stuff the chamber as it improves the overall performance, makes a difference.

As for the components, get the hybrids if you can, they use the Acuflex coated tweeters and they are steller! The cheap morels for the back should be fine. Even the Hertz in the same price range are not as good. There is a reason why the Piccolos go for a grand, ACUFLEX! Lol, jk, but you get my drift.

BTW, the RF T400-4 is as good as most any other 60x4 amplifier out there and better than most. Last time I looked they are still selling for $400 stateside, nothing to sneeze at. Rock solid amplifier. In order to increase the volume of any speaker you use by a mere 3db you would have to go to a 120x4, another 3db, 240 x 4, another 3db, 480x4 and that last one would double the volume (roughly 9db) to the ear. Unless you're ready to plunk down some serious $$ for something like the Sundown 1000.4 (350x4 4) or any other 250+ x 4, use the rockford. it's class A/B, geared to SQ output and is built like a tank. Always amazed when I go into shops and they try to explain why 100x4 is so much better without knowing any of the math behind it; a real turn off.

Not sure what is in your neck of the woods for less than the RF that puts out 125x4 which is the logical next consideration. If you can sell the RF and make enough to soften the burden, let me know which brands you are thinking of an I'll tell you what I think. The beauty of 40 years in this hobby is that I;m not here hyping products that I carry, just sharing many years of custom build experience.

Keep in mind, you up the output of the four channel, that changes the speakers too. With proper DSP tuning and crossing the rears over in a narrower band that the fronts, you will get plenty of sound from the Morels using the RF and the hertz sub powered by the Alpine.

Thanks a lot for the detailed answer!

I just spoke with one of the biggest names here in Israel when it comes to car audio.
They said my budget is pretty tight to fit a DSP, and they suggested to buy some hi-level converter (Just like the other shop), such as AudioControl LC2i Pro. They also said the sound signature is very different when comparing Hertz MPK 165.3P Pro to Hertz 602 Hybrids.
So I gotta figure it out.

That's my current plan:

Subwoofer - Hertz HX300D.
Components - Morel Hybrid 602 (Or Hertz).
Rears - Morel (Which one has similiar tweeter to the Hybrids 602?).
Amps - RF T400-4 + Alpine S-A60M.
DSP/Converter - Helix Mini DSP/AudioControl LC2i Pro.

I asked 2 shops for a price quote (Speakers + Installation) which I will get later today.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Thanks a lot for the detailed answer!

I just spoke with one of the biggest names here in Israel when it comes to car audio.
They said my budget is pretty tight to fit a DSP, and they suggested to buy some hi-level converter (Just like the other shop), such as AudioControl LC2i Pro. They also said the sound signature is very different when comparing Hertz MPK 165.3P Pro to Hertz 602 Hybrids.
So I gotta figure it out.

That's my current plan:

Subwoofer - Hertz HX300D.
Components - Morel Hybrid 602 (Or Hertz).
Rears - Morel (Which one has similiar tweeter to the Hybrids 602?).
Amps - RF T400-4 + Alpine S-A60M.
DSP/Converter - Helix Mini DSP/AudioControl LC2i Pro.

I asked 2 shops for a price quote (Speakers + Installation) which I will get later today.

Subwoofer - Hertz HX300D. Check

Components - Morel Hybrid 602 (Or Hertz). Morel
Rears - Morel (Which one has similar tweeter to the Hybrids 602?). Anyone of the Morels should work, They all use a silk dome tweeter and similar if not the same cone compounds. Look for power ratings mtach.
Amps - RF T400-4 + Alpine S-A60M., Check and Check

DSP/Converter - Helix Mini DSP/AudioControl LC2i Pro.

The helix would be the top ed go to here and is is one of the more GUI friendly interfaces. It's fairly intuitive and most people starting our can get a grasp of what it offers feature wise. The Dayton Dayton Audio DSP-408 combined with an android mic from Dayton and free REW software is a nice setup as well. Not as fancy as the Helix but gets the job done well. This would be a nice combo worth having someone ship it from the US . Prett sure Dayon is available int., you'd know best how to get it.

Home

Dayton Audio DSP-408 4x8 DSP Digital Signal Processor for Home and Car AudioTake Control of Your Sound Ease of use has always had its place in the consumer electronics industry. Dayton Audio has now brought to market a digital signal processor (DSP) that combines versatility, incredible sound...

www.parts-express.com

3.5mm

Dayton Audio - iMM-6S iDevice Calibrated Microphone Straight

iMM-6S iDevice Calibrated Microphone Straight

www.daytonaudio.com

Int.

Dayton Audio - iMM-6 iDevice Calibrated Measurement Microphone

iMM-6 iDevice Calibrated Measurement Microphone

www.daytonaudio.com

int. USB-C

Dayton Audio - iMM-6C iDevice USB-C Calibrated Microphone

iMM-6C iDevice USB-C Calibrated Microphone

www.daytonaudio.com

https://www.daytonaudio.com/images/resources/390-813--dayton-audio-imm-6c-quick-reference-guide.pdf

It uses this free software

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

Check out this out



I gives you full EQ capability and time alignment options, its a great DIY DSP unit.

The Audiocontrol is a great 2 channel LOC. It's not DSP and you do lose the ability to fade front to back, not a big deal to me as once I set the gains, good to go.

In which case you might consider one of these:

AudioControl LC6i 6 Channel Line Output Converter with Internal Summing NEW | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for AudioControl LC6i 6 Channel Line Output Converter with Internal Summing NEW at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Or one of these (preferably)

AudioControl LC7i 6 Channel Line Output Converter with Accubass for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for AudioControl LC7i 6 Channel Line Output Converter with Accubass at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[uriel250]

Subwoofer - Hertz HX300D. Check

Components - Morel Hybrid 602 (Or Hertz). Morel
Rears - Morel (Which one has similar tweeter to the Hybrids 602?). Anyone of the Morels should work, They all use a silk dome tweeter and similar if not the same cone compounds. Look for power ratings mtach.
Amps - RF T400-4 + Alpine S-A60M., Check and Check

DSP/Converter - Helix Mini DSP/AudioControl LC2i Pro.

The helix would be the top ed go to here and is is one of the more GUI friendly interfaces. It's fairly intuitive and most people starting our can get a grasp of what it offers feature wise. The Dayton Dayton Audio DSP-408 combined with an android mic from Dayton and free REW software is a nice setup as well. Not as fancy as the Helix but gets the job done well. This would be a nice combo worth having someone ship it from the US . Prett sure Dayon is available int., you'd know best how to get it.

Home

Dayton Audio DSP-408 4x8 DSP Digital Signal Processor for Home and Car AudioTake Control of Your Sound Ease of use has always had its place in the consumer electronics industry. Dayton Audio has now brought to market a digital signal processor (DSP) that combines versatility, incredible sound...

www.parts-express.com

3.5mm

Dayton Audio - iMM-6S iDevice Calibrated Microphone Straight

iMM-6S iDevice Calibrated Microphone Straight

www.daytonaudio.com

Int.

Dayton Audio - iMM-6 iDevice Calibrated Measurement Microphone

iMM-6 iDevice Calibrated Measurement Microphone

www.daytonaudio.com

int. USB-C

Dayton Audio - iMM-6C iDevice USB-C Calibrated Microphone

iMM-6C iDevice USB-C Calibrated Microphone

www.daytonaudio.com

https://www.daytonaudio.com/images/resources/390-813--dayton-audio-imm-6c-quick-reference-guide.pdf

It uses this free software

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

Check out this out



I gives you full EQ capability and time alignment options, its a great DIY DSP unit.

The Audiocontrol is a great 2 channel LOC. It's not DSP and you do lose the ability to fade front to back, not a big deal to me as once I set the gains, good to go.

In which case you might consider one of these:

AudioControl LC6i 6 Channel Line Output Converter with Internal Summing NEW | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for AudioControl LC6i 6 Channel Line Output Converter with Internal Summing NEW at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Or one of these (preferably)

AudioControl LC7i 6 Channel Line Output Converter with Accubass for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for AudioControl LC7i 6 Channel Line Output Converter with Accubass at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Fair.
I will get one of those DSPs.
The Daytone + Mic is roughly 900NIS ($250).
The Helix Mini MK2 - about 1800NIS ($500) - But that one includes "professional" installation by the authorized reseller rep.

The reviews on the Daytone on Amazon are not that good (4.2 stars). Do you think I'll be fine with it calibrating it on my own?
I just have to let it do all the job once the mic is connected to my phone? Put my phone on the listening position (Like you do with AV receivers)? No need for manual intervention?

I already did some calibration to a Denon AV receiver (Audyssey), if that's about the same process then it should be pretty easy.

And for the amp kit, I see they only come with 20ft of speaker cable, would that be enough for an SUV (Kia Sportage)?
16GA or 14GA for the speaker wire? I found some Skar Audio kit that has much better reviews than the 14GA no name OFC kit that you linked above but it's 16GA.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

The dayton or any DSP will require some time and effort on your part. One of things that plagued that 408 early on and a bit still, is that people don't know what they are getting into and then the install results in noise issues, which I've not encountered and could also be user install issues. It's not like MCCAC or Audyssey which are essentially set it and forget it with the option to adjust, fine tune manually. MCCAC or Audyssey are really all about time alignment and sub/sat adjustments, no real EQ, in their basic application anyway.

If you want to get a feel for it. download the REW calibration software, give it a try in test mode. I think you;re going to probably want the Helix in this instance unless you;re willing to put in some time to learn how to do it successfully.

I've actually purchased that Skar and that no name OFC kit and frankly see little difference. My experience with reading reviews on the cheaper products seem to indicate many of the reviews are from neophytes that don't know what they are looking at. The main consideration is the power ground and if it is actually OFC, which these two are. Stay away from the ones that claim to be OFC "hybrids", they're a joke. The kits get you started with the essentials and almost always require tweaks to complete. If you can find a 2 amplifier kit, they usually provide most everything one needs. Often, trying to piece out everything is way more expensive even if you don't use everything in the kits and augment accordingly.

What you want to get for a two amp install with the 2 amps is:

1/0-4 gauge OFC welding or amplifier power wire (a la carte or in a kit $$ dependent) and occasionally you will find 1/0 or 2 gauge for the price of 4 when it is labeled welding wire). Welding and Marine power wire can be less flexible but when using 4 gauge, not usually much of an issue. In my setup, I rund double 00 to the rear of my hatch, you'll want at least 4 gauge and 1/0 gauge if it is cheap enough. Either is a standard for connectors/ distribution blocks, so whichever provides you the most for the least amount of $$.

A fuse or breaker equal to the total of the two amplifiers fused rating, Add the two together and get a ANL fuse or circuit breaker and mount it within 18" of the car battery on the power lead. Your Alpin fuse rating is 60A and the RF is 100A, so a 160 amp fuse or breaker will work. The links I'm providing are only to show you what you need, often Amazon is cheapest but this site won't allow the lines to populate correctly. Anything I list here should be researched to get the best deals for you in your area.

I do make a strong recommend on the type of breaker used if you elect to use b breaker, my preference for a number of reasons, the main one being that you can turn the current on or off to your equipment with a flip of the switch. Here is what I would get.

T Tocas 150 Amp Surface-Mount Circuit Breakers with Manual Reset Switch Button | eBay

T Tocas 150 Amp Surface-Mount Circuit Breakers with Manual Reset Switch Button for Boat Marine RV Yacht Battery Truck Solar, 12V - 48V DC, Waterproof (150A). Manual Reset Circuit Breaker,can also be used as an on/off button switch for the battery Boat Marine RV Yacht Battery Trailer Bus Truck Solar.

www.ebay.com

Don't get pulled in by the cheap Chinese made breakers, they are usually a waste of money. If you elect to use a fuse, then any inline ANL fuse setup is fine as long as it is designed for the engine compartment.

At the other end, you will need a 2 way fused distribution block. These are nice and inexpensive but anything like this should be fine. (use a 60A for the Alpine and a 100A fuse for the RF).

Recoil MFH12 2 Way Mini-ANL Fused Distribution Block, 1 X 0/2/4 Gauge in / 2 X 4 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Recoil MFH12 2 Way Mini-ANL Fused Distribution Block, 1 X 0/2/4 Gauge in / 2 X 4 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

You'll need around 18-24 inches of equally sized ground wire too. Excellent grounding is essential, just visit youtube for a 100 examples of how to insure a good ground.

You'll need a total of 6 channels of RCA connections from any DSP or LOC, find twisted pair RCA's that are shielded by design. I like Knukonceptz, NVX for performance and price. You should have one pair already if you get a kit (use for the sub) and add an additional 4 channel like this.

NVX XIX45 5m (16.40 ft) 4-Channel X-Series RCA Audio Interconnect Cable | eBay

Product SKU: 45094 ID: xix45. NVX VKN2BK. NVX Black Handle Stainless Steel Utility Knife. X-Series: 5m (16.40 ft) 4-Channel RCA Audio Interconnect Cable. RCA Interconnect Cable Specifications. Wire / Cable Type RCA Interconnect Cable.

www.ebay.com

16 gauge for all the speakers is fine (with the exception of the subs). There is absolutely no reason to use anything thicker. I like this stuff from NVX. Silver plated OFC, flexible, strong jacket and quality wire.

This is a steal at $35 and may be enough to everything with.

NVX XWS1675 EnvyFlex 75 ft. 16 Gauge 100% OFC Car Audio Speaker Cable/Wire | eBay

Product SKU: 49558 ID: xws1675. NVX XWS1675. NVX VKN2BK. NVX Black Handle Stainless Steel Utility Knife. Wire Material OFC (100% Oxygen-Free Copper). Wire / Cable Type Speaker Wire. Speaker Wire. Wire Gauge 16 gauge.

www.ebay.com

For the sub

This is going to be way more than you need, but as an example:

NVX XWS1225 25 ft. Premium 12 Gauge OFC EnvyFlex Speaker Cable/Wire | eBay

Product SKU: 49565 ID: xws1225. NVX XWS1225. 12 Gauge EnvyFlex Speaker Cable/Wire. NVX VKN2BK. NVX Black Handle Stainless Steel Utility Knife. Wire Material OFC (100% Oxygen-Free Copper). Wire / Cable Type Speaker Wire.

www.ebay.com

You would likely get the 6 feet you need locally for a lot less.

 

[uriel250]

The dayton or any DSP will require some time and effort on your part. One of things that plagued that 408 early on and a bit still, is that people don't know what they are getting into and then the install results in noise issues, which I've not encountered and could also be user install issues. It's not like MCCAC or Audyssey which are essentially set it and forget it with the option to adjust, fine tune manually. MCCAC or Audyssey are really all about time alignment and sub/sat adjustments, no real EQ, in their basic application anyway.

If you want to get a feel for it. download the REW calibration software, give it a try in test mode. I think you;re going to probably want the Helix in this instance unless you;re willing to put in some time to learn how to do it successfully.

I've actually purchased that Skar and that no name OFC kit and frankly see little difference. My experience with reading reviews on the cheaper products seem to indicate many of the reviews are from neophytes that don't know what they are looking at. The main consideration is the power ground and if it is actually OFC, which these two are. Stay away from the ones that claim to be OFC "hybrids", they're a joke. The kits get you started with the essentials and almost always require tweaks to complete. If you can find a 2 amplifier kit, they usually provide most everything one needs. Often, trying to piece out everything is way more expensive even if you don't use everything in the kits and augment accordingly.

What you want to get for a two amp install with the 2 amps is:

1/0-4 gauge OFC welding or amplifier power wire (a la carte or in a kit $$ dependent) and occasionally you will find 1/0 or 2 gauge for the price of 4 when it is labeled welding wire). Welding and Marine power wire can be less flexible but when using 4 gauge, not usually much of an issue. In my setup, I rund double 00 to the rear of my hatch, you'll want at least 4 gauge and 1/0 gauge if it is cheap enough. Either is a standard for connectors/ distribution blocks, so whichever provides you the most for the least amount of $$.

A fuse or breaker equal to the total of the two amplifiers fused rating, Add the two together and get a ANL fuse or circuit breaker and mount it within 18" of the car battery on the power lead. Your Alpin fuse rating is 60A and the RF is 100A, so a 160 amp fuse or breaker will work. The links I'm providing are only to show you what you need, often Amazon is cheapest but this site won't allow the lines to populate correctly. Anything I list here should be researched to get the best deals for you in your area.

I do make a strong recommend on the type of breaker used if you elect to use b breaker, my preference for a number of reasons, the main one being that you can turn the current on or off to your equipment with a flip of the switch. Here is what I would get.

T Tocas 150 Amp Surface-Mount Circuit Breakers with Manual Reset Switch Button | eBay

T Tocas 150 Amp Surface-Mount Circuit Breakers with Manual Reset Switch Button for Boat Marine RV Yacht Battery Truck Solar, 12V - 48V DC, Waterproof (150A). Manual Reset Circuit Breaker,can also be used as an on/off button switch for the battery Boat Marine RV Yacht Battery Trailer Bus Truck Solar.

www.ebay.com

Don't get pulled in by the cheap Chinese made breakers, they are usually a waste of money. If you elect to use a fuse, then any inline ANL fuse setup is fine as long as it is designed for the engine compartment.

At the other end, you will need a 2 way fused distribution block. These are nice and inexpensive but anything like this should be fine. (use a 60A for the Alpine and a 100A fuse for the RF).

Recoil MFH12 2 Way Mini-ANL Fused Distribution Block, 1 X 0/2/4 Gauge in / 2 X 4 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Recoil MFH12 2 Way Mini-ANL Fused Distribution Block, 1 X 0/2/4 Gauge in / 2 X 4 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

You'll need around 18-24 inches of equally sized ground wire too. Excellent grounding is essential, just visit youtube for a 100 examples of how to insure a good ground.

You'll need a total of 6 channels of RCA connections from any DSP or LOC, find twisted pair RCA's that are shielded by design. I like Knukonceptz, NVX for performance and price. You should have one pair already if you get a kit (use for the sub) and add an additional 4 channel like this.

NVX XIX45 5m (16.40 ft) 4-Channel X-Series RCA Audio Interconnect Cable | eBay

Product SKU: 45094 ID: xix45. NVX VKN2BK. NVX Black Handle Stainless Steel Utility Knife. X-Series: 5m (16.40 ft) 4-Channel RCA Audio Interconnect Cable. RCA Interconnect Cable Specifications. Wire / Cable Type RCA Interconnect Cable.

www.ebay.com

16 gauge for all the speakers is fine (with the exception of the subs). There is absolutely no reason to use anything thicker. I like this stuff from NVX. Silver plated OFC, flexible, strong jacket and quality wire.

This is a steal at $35 and may be enough to everything with.

NVX XWS1675 EnvyFlex 75 ft. 16 Gauge 100% OFC Car Audio Speaker Cable/Wire | eBay

Product SKU: 49558 ID: xws1675. NVX XWS1675. NVX VKN2BK. NVX Black Handle Stainless Steel Utility Knife. Wire Material OFC (100% Oxygen-Free Copper). Wire / Cable Type Speaker Wire. Speaker Wire. Wire Gauge 16 gauge.

www.ebay.com

For the sub

This is going to be way more than you need, but as an example:

NVX XWS1225 25 ft. Premium 12 Gauge OFC EnvyFlex Speaker Cable/Wire | eBay

Product SKU: 49565 ID: xws1225. NVX XWS1225. 12 Gauge EnvyFlex Speaker Cable/Wire. NVX VKN2BK. NVX Black Handle Stainless Steel Utility Knife. Wire Material OFC (100% Oxygen-Free Copper). Wire / Cable Type Speaker Wire.

www.ebay.com

You would likely get the 6 feet you need locally for a lot less.

Quick update:

I ordered today the Morel Hybrids 602 along with Tempo Ultra Integra MK2 for rear fill and the Helix Mini MK2 DSP.

I picked up the new sealed sub 12" enclosure with some polyfill, internal volume is roughly 1.07cubic feet - Hertz recommend 1.03cubic feet.

I added 8oz of polyfill to make a nice even coat of all walls, I felt like it was enough, I will add more if needed as soon as I get the whole system installed.

I already got in touch with one of my local audio shops to get it installed by the end of this week.

I just need to decide on where do I install the amps.
The shop suggested me to install it under the drivers seat for best perfomance (Summer here is super hot, and if I put em in the trunk they will get HOT and eventually break down).
I told them the access to the amps will be very hard (to make adjustments under drivers seat) so they said no need to adjust anything after DSP was calibrated and everything is performing as expected.
Where do you suggest me to install the amps?

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Awesome, going to be a nice setup indeed. They are correct regarding the DSP, once it issetup, you should only be doing minor volume/fader adjustments (if any) from the HU. To that point, I would mount them where they charge you the least amount to do it!!! Lol, It gets plenty hot here in Boise ID in the summer (95-105) for short durations and my setup is all in the rear hatch area. I also have limo tint on the cars windows, makes a marked difference. I've done under the seat in a number of builds and accessing controls is rarely a consideration. Spilling drinks and accumulated garbage/things that fall down under the seat was always more of a worry. If they think that under the seat is best, due to the heat, then that works too. When the car is parked the ambient temperature of the interior usually only varies by a factor of 5-10 degrees, anywhere in the car so placement unless in direct sunlight (and even then) should not hinder operation. I doubt that the interior of the car ever exceeds the operating temperature level that the amp is designed to work in. the shop should know your area and the thermal limits. I would be inclined to put all the equipment in the back, personally. I would put them where they fit the best. Under the seats is nice in that they are out of the way for sure.

Did we cover damping? In particular, the locations of the speakers. Use whatever you can (Ilke thesiles product from amazon for budget damping) Killmat or Siles, any decent quality 120mil is great. Damp the $hit out of the doors that the speakers are going at the very , least.

 

[uriel250]

Awesome, going to be a nice setup indeed. They are correct regarding the DSP, once it issetup, you should only be doing minor volume/fader adjustments (if any) from the HU. To that point, I would mount them where they charge you the least amount to do it!!! Lol, It gets plenty hot here in Boise ID in the summer (95-105) for short durations and my setup is all in the rear hatch area. I also have limo tint on the cars windows, makes a marked difference. I've done under the seat in a number of builds and accessing controls is rarely a consideration. Spilling drinks and accumulated garbage/things that fall down under the seat was always more of a worry. If they think that under the seat is best, due to the heat, then that works too. When the car is parked the ambient temperature of the interior usually only varies by a factor of 5-10 degrees, anywhere in the car so placement unless in direct sunlight (and even then) should not hinder operation. I doubt that the interior of the car ever exceeds the operating temperature level that the amp is designed to work in. the shop should know your area and the thermal limits. I would be inclined to put all the equipment in the back, personally. I would put them where they fit the best. Under the seats is nice in that they are out of the way for sure.

Did we cover damping? In particular, the locations of the speakers. Use whatever you can (Ilke thesiles product from amazon for budget damping) Killmat or Siles, any decent quality 120mil is great. Damp the $hit out of the doors that the speakers are going at the very , least.

The shop charges $500 for the installation regardless of mount location, lol.
That includes OFC cables, fuses, basically everything needed for the installation + labor and 4 doors sound deadening (stp brand, very popular here).

I asked them to place the amps in a tricky place, not exactly directly on the rear seats as most people do, but hidden behind them where the spare tire sits - like in this video.
it does make sense that air can't escape in that spot and the amps does heat up pretty quickly, especially the rockford amp.

So it's either under the seats or directly on the rear seats.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Well, then, which ever is going to give you the least vibrations, least possibility for failure by accidentally bumping them, etc. so most likely, under the seats.

They should be able to mount them in a way that you can slide the seats all the forward to access most anything you need to get to, at least on the RF. I don't see that as an issue. Anytime you'll need to do anything that you have to access the connectors from the top means you have bigger issues anyway. I'd put them under the seat allowing to use the rear seats and fold them down willy nilly without constantly having to worry about damage or disconnecting wires, etc.

Meant to tell ya, on stuffing the box with polyfill. It will seem like a pound of that is taking all the room and that its too much - it's not. Just stuff and fluff away and let that back of the woofer push it out of the way if need be. Most of the fill will actually sit around 1 inch off the entire driver basket, if that, so get used to that idea, it's fine just seems weird.

The fill makes the driver think it's operating in a larger enclosure so that one you selected will be perfect as the one that Hertz modeled did better in a slightly larger one that they recommend so like 1.15 cubes anyway. Unlike standing waves cancelation materials used in a regular loudspeaker, this is not for that, it's to trick the driver into performing better and in my experience just sounds better.

I think that it's going to be awesome! Report back and tell us how it turns out!

 

[uriel250]

Well, then, which ever is going to give you the least vibrations, least possibility for failure by accidentally bumping them, etc. so most likely, under the seats.

They should be able to mount them in a way that you can slide the seats all the forward to access most anything you need to get to, at least on the RF. I don't see that as an issue. Anytime you'll need to do anything that you have to access the connectors from the top means you have bigger issues anyway. I'd put them under the seat allowing to use the rear seats and fold them down willy nilly without constantly having to worry about damage or disconnecting wires, etc.

Meant to tell ya, on stuffing the box with polyfill. It will seem like a pound of that is taking all the room and that its too much - it's not. Just stuff and fluff away and let that back of the woofer push it out of the way if need be. Most of the fill will actually sit around 1 inch off the entire driver basket, if that, so get used to that idea, it's fine just seems weird.

The fill makes the driver think it's operating in a larger enclosure so that one you selected will be perfect as the one that Hertz modeled did better in a slightly larger one that they recommend so like 1.15 cubes anyway. Unlike standing waves cancelation materials used in a regular loudspeaker, this is not for that, it's to trick the driver into performing better and in my experience just sounds better.

I think that it's going to be awesome! Report back and tell us how it turns out!

Okayyy so I got everything installed!

I think they used CCA cables sadly (Except the cable that goes from the HU to the DSP which was 18GA OFC), I tried sourcing OFC cables from other shops but most of them carry CCA.
To compensate on this I told them to use larger gauge (14GA instead of 16GA).

The difference between stock Kia sound system and the new system NIGHT and DAY.
SO loud and clear.

The "Professional" Helix Mini MK2 DSP setup is not so "pro", all they did is basically setting low/high pass freq, some gain, input gain vrms on 3.8 (not sure why, it made the whole system sound VERY bass boosted, I put it back on default 11.7 or 11.8vrms and increased the gain directly on amps, sounds much cleaner).
They didn't bother with EQ or timings etc ...

I tried playing with "Punch EQ" on the Rockford amp, 50% sounds pretty good with -6 dB slope, or 0% with no slope.
Not sure which setting to keep.

I am still trying to figure out what's the best way to EQ the speakers to get the most out of them.
Any advice?

And I found out that Apple devices put out a "stronger" signal than Android when connected to the HU, like Apple has more bass and louder at a lower volume (Android requires roughly +10 above apple on HU volume to reach the same SPL).