Time Alignment T/A Delay, etc.

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

This is going to be hard to explain, but hopefully it makes sense…
That diagram is basically showing how you mimic (achieve) width in a car; where the drivers would then be equidistant from the listener. You can T/A, but you can’t physically move the drivers. So, all you’re doing is creating the illusion. I think the big point here is to realize that you’re, again, not physically moving the drivers. IF you could do this, then, yes, the rationale that the center is dead in front of you at the drivers seat would hold true. But, in the case of the environment, it doesn’t pan out (haha… nice pun)

Does that make any sense?

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif good stuff Bikini! good stuff = G String! :boobies:

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

What a bright time align, it’s the right time align

To rock the night away

Jingle bell time align is a swell time align

To go gliding in a one-horse sleigh

Giddy-up jingle horse, pick up your feet

Jingle around the clock

Mix and a-mingle in the jingling feet

That’s the jingle bell,

That’s the jingle bell,

That’s the jingle bell rock.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

james has too much time on his hands...too much time on his hands

 

[Jeremy M 10+ year member]

so is there a way to make it so that the stage is centered under the rear view from both driver and passenger seats(front row)?

I am able to "view" music from a center stage....this of course seems to only work while listening to something other then rap/ hiphopmusic?

am i the only one ?

 

[bikinpunk 10+ year member]

What you're asking about is called a 2-seat car. Quite frankly, there's no way to achieve a dead center, the same location, for both driver and passenger. The nearfield environment is largely to blame for this; the further you are away from the stage, the easier it is for things to seem more relative. But, since you're only about 4-5' away from the physical soundstage you don't have the luxury of true depth (distance from stage). Thus, you'll have to compromise something from one of the seats. Trade-off could be tonality for imaging in passenger's seat, or vice versa.

imo

 

[dirthog 10+ year member]

The picture layout also makes it seem like the singer will be in front of you but when you adjust T/A it will be in the middle of your dash. If you have level matched correctly.

Another thing that I think would be helpful if you don't know. When you measure for T/A you can't necessarily use those settings. Yes a tape measure said it's X distance away from your head but other things come into play that your ears hear.

One to think about is reflections and a small adjustment can correct that. Another, your ear isn't exactly where you measured from, more than likely.

If you want to know if it will work for you then try a few things. Measure to get close initial settings. Play just the mids. Use pink noise and familiar music that isn't too busy. Make adjustments to your liking. I aim for the strongest sound and then level match to get the center image in the center of my dash.

 

[AdrianD 10+ year member]

I think I should have involved subwoofers to get more replies on what people think about T/A.
I wonder if people know that subwoofers can also be delayed. I wonder what's the purpose of having the capability of delaying subwoofers.

Funny thing is, delaying the left speakers moves the image towards the center...so my noobish logic tells me that delaying the subs would only move the "bass" towards the rear of the car.

I delayed my speakers to bring bass forward //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

 

[dirthog 10+ year member]

You first need to get the mid T/A set correctly. This helps to ensure you have strong mid bass coming from the mids.

Once you have done that then play with the sub T/A to get the best sound around the crossover point of the mid and sub.

Correcting T/A could be the difference between having great bass/mid bass or lacking bass/mid bass. Often times if the T/A is off you'll try to boost or use other methods to solve lacking mid bass but 30 minutes adjusting T/A can correct everything.

Funny thing is, delaying the left speakers moves the image towards the center...so my noobish logic tells me that delaying the subs would only move the "bass" towards the rear of the car. I delayed my speakers to bring bass forward //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

The image shift from left to right is more complicated but with the sub it's in front or behind you. If you have the T/A incorrect the sub will sound like it's coming from the rear. Also, if your sub level is too high, which would be most on this forum, then it will come from the rear. If you want it to sound like it's coming from in front of you then you need to have T/A set correctly between the sub and mid.

I think the goal of T/A on this forum is to have the strongest bass/ mid bass.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

I personally like to T/A my sub(s) last, after I get the rest dialed in. Phase first, then T/A. I haven't tried delaying all the speakers to the sub. I might try that next time... when i start to care again.

 

[mcsoul 10+ year member]

I was thinking that due to distance and group delay, the sub requires

no delay at all in a trunk or hatchback. I would also think (perhaps wrongly)

that the rear facing and ported enclosures increase the delay needed for the

cabin speakers over what would be needed based on distance alone.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

i just like to use the ears

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

Instead of delaying, can we speed up? So there is no going back and forth?

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Instead of delaying, can we speed up? So there is no going back and forth?

relative to the speakers being delayed, wouldn't the non-delayed speakers be considered sped up(if you want to call it that) ?

 

[mcsoul 10+ year member]

Instead of delaying, can we speed up? So there is no going back and forth?

As long as by "speed up", you mean using delay to simulate speeding up.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif