Help design my son's Christmas

[elsberry]

Firstly, let me introduce myself. I'm 42 now, but back in the day I worked to design and install some pretty nice stuff. Old school stuff now though which is the problem, as I've been out of the game now for about 15 years and everything has changed. My last system was Infinity components front and rear, two 12" strokers, two EQTs, epicenter, 6XS, and Concord (the old Harmon Kardon made) amps. I've installed countless Orion HCCA amps, and remember the day the first Beast arrived in the shop - I bought it!

Now, my son is 17 and wants audio for Christmas - which I think personally is a good choice.

I can design and fabricate the enclosures, can do any fiberglass needed for custom work, know to properly wire the system and manage power requirement, but as I read up on stuff, I find that the companies I knew are now of 'less quality' than they used to be. Phoenix Gold used to be great, now not so hot. Same with the Soundstream Reference series amps. The brands are still there, but the quality might not be near what I knew, and without being in a shop anymore installing and testing equipment, it's hard to compare spec sheets and really get a true answer. Ideally I'm planning on a pair of 12s, amps racked to a sloping enclosure, smoothed out, and sprayed with base / clear to match the car, with a silver and a glow in the dark pearl to make it really pop.

So, here's my project, and I would appreciate any input anyone has. I have approximately $800-100 to work with, so it's SERIOUSLY a budget install, but I didn't set that budget, "She Who Must Be Obeyed" did.

The vehicle is a 2001 Mitsubishi Montero Sport XS. I need to replace the head unit with something with multiple pre-outs, iPhone inputs, Satellite radio ready (prefer XM since I'm a subscriber - Liquid Metal rules!!), need an active crossover, two 6 1/2" components or two-ways for the rear doors, amps, and subs. There's enough volume in the back for pretty much whatever I want to do, but I'd like to keep it somewhat stealth for his own 'theft protection'. I'd prefer quality over quantity. He knows enough to turn down a set of Bose earbuds for Klipsch, so there is hope. The current front speakers are JL Audio CX-650ti's and they will stay.

I used a lot of Cerwin Vega subs back then, but now I'm not sure of their quality. He is 17, and listens to a lot of metal, and no rap, so there's no need for that extensive 40htz resonance that seems to dominate rap music, but all the same, I want to make his Christmas pretty special and start him down the road of truly appreciating car audio for the quality that it can be.

Thanks again in advance, and I apologize for the intro jumping immediately into the deep question.

Thanks!

Dave Elsberry

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[brodeisel 10+ year member]

Do you want just a single sub set up? Sound stream is still kinda decent just now it is the rubicon series.

 

[Wingsfreak9 10+ year member]

ive got a rockford t2 boxes and lots of wires for sale if you need anything let me know

 

[subdicted 10+ year member]

how much volume do you have for boxes?

 

[Kangaroux 5,000+ posts]

First off, welcome to the forum //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wave.gif.002382ce7d7c19757ab945cc69819de1.gif

I would only do a set of components for the fronts, don't worry about the rears. The rears you can just keep the stocks in and run off headunit power. The fronts are important simply because they are the speakers that are facing you. The rears are there just to give you some fill and to create that 3D effect. If you do want to replace them just get some mids and put them back there, tweets are not necessary and in most cases will ruin your sound stage.

From the way you are talking about setting up the system you are more concerned with overall clarity than loudness. In which case I would recommend a low powered sub that works well in installs geared towards SQ (Sound quality). The SSA DCON is a popular choice among forum members. Low power rating, sounds very clean and still has the ability to get loud if you want it to. They excel in both sealed and ported enclosures.

You mentioned you would like active crossovers. Most nicer amps come with active crossovers built in, however if you want to get a higher-end headunit some come with crossovers that are integrated.

I would highly suggest looking into used equipment on the forums. You will find some crazy deals and more often than not the items are mint or barely used. Most of us try out equipment for a couple months then trade it out for something else so as you can imagine the condition of the items are very good.

 

[elsberry]

Do you want just a single sub set up? Sound stream is still kinda decent just now it is the rubicon series.

I can do a single or a dual. I always ran dual 12s, but I barely had the space for them, especially running the strokers. I'm pretty flexible in that area. I want it to 'look' good, and duals tend to have a better curb appeal of course, but then again, one big 15 or 18 was always pretty impressive sitting in a car, but I actually thought that their sound quality wasn't that good, perhaps due to size.

 

[brodeisel 10+ year member]

well for dual 12s i would look at some sundown sa 12's or skar 12's.

Listen to kangaroux he knows his stuff better then i do.

 

[elsberry]

I'm guessing off the top of my head right now since he's at school, but I figure that there's probably eight to ten cubic feet to work with. I'm donating his entire cargo area to the project, so amps will go there too unless I get old school and build a custom overhead up front for the crossover network and amps, cover them with plex, etcetera. We did a LOT of custom work, so that isn't too hard, it's just the product lines now.

 

[Dirtrider4eva 10+ year member]

this guy knows whats up as well^^

i deeply reccomend going with 2 dcons or 1 SSA icon. to what your refering two, two 10" sound suffice.

skar vvx10s as well. or a couple of sundown SA 8s will be cool

then for amp... budget is a hard term for amps.. for you simply get what you pay for. i guess i can reccomend:

MB quart onyx series

AP 1500d amp

hifonics BRZ 1200. (not bxi)

all that comes to mind.

headunits, depends. recently im deciding to go with either of these:

Amazon.com: Pioneer FH-P8000BT Double-Din In-Dash CD/MP3/WMA/AAC Receiver with Built-In Bluetooth, iPod Control, and Rear USB Input: Car Electronics

http://www.amazon.com/Clarion-Mobile-Electronics-CX501-Bluetooth/dp/B004KVLB9E/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1319402897&sr=1-1-fkmr0

i want a DD without touch screen.. both have HPF, LPF... nice adjustmensts. etc.

for him, id go with a detacheable face single din, so people wont think about stealing it.

 

[brodeisel 10+ year member]

^ dont forget the sound stream rubicon series do rated for a decent price. They look good also.

And for the subs there are people on here that can design a box for you also. Which i bet you know is a must for the subs.

 

[elsberry]

First off, welcome to the forum //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wave.gif.002382ce7d7c19757ab945cc69819de1.gif
I would only do a set of components for the fronts, don't worry about the rears. The rears you can just keep the stocks in and run off headunit power. The fronts are important simply because they are the speakers that are facing you. The rears are there just to give you some fill and to create that 3D effect. If you do want to replace them just get some mids and put them back there, tweets are not necessary and in most cases will ruin your sound stage.

From the way you are talking about setting up the system you are more concerned with overall clarity than loudness. In which case I would recommend a low powered sub that works well in installs geared towards SQ (Sound quality). The SSA DCON is a popular choice among forum members. Low power rating, sounds very clean and still has the ability to get loud if you want it to. They excel in both sealed and ported enclosures.

You mentioned you would like active crossovers. Most nicer amps come with active crossovers built in, however if you want to get a higher-end headunit some come with crossovers that are integrated.

I would highly suggest looking into used equipment on the forums. You will find some crazy deals and more often than not the items are mint or barely used. Most of us try out equipment for a couple months then trade it out for something else so as you can imagine the condition of the items are very good.

Thanks for the welcome! It was a bit awkward to admit that I've been out of this so long as to not know what to buy anymore... Then again, the setup for my pool is all Nakamichi old school amps, with Klipsch speakers (eight of them) so I'm not 'totally' out //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I can move the JL Audio speakers to the rear doors. The car has to be gutted to do the install properly anyway, so what is two more door panels. The are two-way, so they should suffice there, and that's already a sunk cost that is already paid for, plus I can put a passive crossover in-line on those and kill the tweeters easily enough to balance out the sound without replacing them.

You are correct, I am more concerned with quality over volume. I know he will turn it all the way up, and I'd rather be sure that he's pushing clean audio at that volume level than worrying about clipping somewhere in the system or smoking speakers constantly due to THD amplified through the system.

I'll check out the SSA DCON subs. As you would expect, I'm not familiar with them, but the price looks good.

See, back in 1990 crossovers were not built into the head units typically and not in a lot of amps at the time though some of the better ones had them, and that was why the 6XS was critical to keep from killing things.

I'll check out the used equipment. I remember swapping stuff in and out constantly //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Z1NONLY 10+ year member]

Sounds like you already understand the pro's and con's of different layouts and enclosure types and are just looking for info regarding which brands to avoid and which ones you can (still) "trust".

The good news is power has become very cheap and there are a lot of efficient class D amps available to allow you to get plenty of power with most stock electrical systems.

If you have time look at the classifieds on this site. There's a lot of good equipment going for very cheap. Some of it is BNIB (brand new in box). It's really a buyer's market.

Oh, and keep an eye on sensitivity of the subs vs the power you intend to use. With power so cheap, a lot of high end subs are built to handle crazy amounts of power. Durability seems to have taken design priority over sensitivity now.

 

[skitzafit 10+ year member]

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/soundsolutionsaudio-com/391172-ssa-12-dcon-review.html

 

[elsberry]

this guy knows whats up as well^^i deeply reccomend going with 2 dcons or 1 SSA icon. to what your refering two, two 10" sound suffice.

skar vvx10s as well. or a couple of sundown SA 8s will be cool

then for amp... budget is a hard term for amps.. for you simply get what you pay for. i guess i can reccomend:

MB quart onyx series

AP 1500d amp

hifonics BRZ 1200. (not bxi)

all that comes to mind.

headunits, depends. recently im deciding to go with either of these:

Amazon.com: Pioneer FH-P8000BT Double-Din In-Dash CD/MP3/WMA/AAC Receiver with Built-In Bluetooth, iPod Control, and Rear USB Input: Car Electronics

Amazon.com: Clarion Mobile Electronics CX501 - 2-DIN CD/Bluetooth/USB Receiver: Electronics

i want a DD without touch screen.. both have HPF, LPF... nice adjustmensts. etc.

for him, id go with a detacheable face single din, so people wont think about stealing it.

Yeah, Budget and Amp really shouldn't belong in the same sentence, should they? Garbage in is garbage out. I'd rather use less power than try to go on a watt hunting expedition. I was surprised to see though that the prices have come down quite a bit in 15 years. I think that Orion HCCA 2250 (I think) was a couple of grand back then... I have no idea if they are any good anymore or not, but they are not in the budget anyway.

I was looking for a single DIN unit, and most likely a Pioneer unit as they seem to have held their quality over time. There's a second bay for storage below the unit in dash, but I want to custom fab a 12V / USB charger port under the flip down cover in that slot, so a single DIN works better for that.

 

[elsberry]

Sounds like you already understand the pro's and con's of different layouts and enclosure types and are just looking for info regarding which brands to avoid and which ones you can (still) "trust".
The good news is power has become very cheap and there are a lot of efficient class D amps available to allow you to get plenty of power with most stock electrical systems.

If you have time look at the classifieds on this site. There's a lot of good equipment going for very cheap. Some of it is BNIB (brand new in box). It's really a buyer's market.

Oh, and keep an eye on sensitivity of the subs vs the power you intend to use. With power so cheap, a lot of high end subs are built to handle crazy amounts of power. Durability seems to have taken design priority over sensitivity now.

I do understand the pro's and con's for the most part still. There's new equipment around, stuff that wasn't there before, and all the brands have changed and either gone downhill, or had rough patches and I don't know what I can trust anymore. You are absolutely correct.

Yes, power is MUCH cheaper, and I'm thrilled to see that. Back then, class D amps were very inefficient. Have they gotten any better? We had issues with actually hearing the amp cutting in and out because the ran in switched mode with the really large amps, but then again they were Lanzar if I remember correctly, and we used them for quantity of watts and then had to double them because their stated output was so over-rated. I don't know if that's changed or not, but I see they are still around, though I wouldn't use one anyway as I'm after quality of sound.

I'll take a look at the classifieds. I'd love to snag something at a decent price. BNIB is perfect, or gently used. Cosmetics will be key for him, and it's pretty easy to do if the stuff hasn't slid around under a seat somewhere.

Will do. I have noticed that the power ratings have gone up quite a bit, and I wondered if that wasn't at the expense of durability, especially with some of these amps that seem very large now compared to the older ones.

Today, I feel old //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif