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BRZ

Upgrading to bigger amps

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Decided to replace my amps for smaller/higher power options, just have a few questions. I will be running factory electrical.

1. Is 136w considered ample power for mids and highs? I can also get an alternate Taramps amp for nearly double the price that would do 4x192W RMS
2. Since these amps are both way over the speakers rated RMS, I will run them with the gains super low. Would setting gains with a multi-meter be ideal? Or inch up until I hear distortion and back down? Any pointers is appreciated.
3. Will I be ok from an electrical/voltage perspective?
4. Do you guys think this is worthwhile from a sound quality/bass output perspective?

Sub:
Current: 2014 Soundstream Rubicon RUB1.1000D running at 1 ohm 1000w x 1
Replacement: Taramps HD 3000 to run at 1 ohm 3000w x 1
Sub = Sundown Audio SA12-D2 wired to 1 ohm in a sealed box

Mids/Highs:
Current: 2014 Soundstream Rubicon RUB4.500D running at 4 ohm 75w x 4 RMS
Replacement: Taramps DS 800x4 to run at 4 ohm 136w x 4
Mids = Dayton Audio RS180-4 7" 4 ohm, rated at 60w RMS
Highs = Dayton Audio RS75-4 3" 4 ohm, rated at 15w RMS

Edited by BRZ

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you'll be fine with the ds 800x4 since its rated at 12.6 volts you'll be having closer to 150-160ish watts if you keep 14.0 volts.  You wont really hear distortion but you'll hear peaks in the frequency response when the tweeter/mid starts getting stressed.  You never ever want to use test tones for mids and highs.


09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k

Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS......Mids/Highs two pioneer gm 8604 bridged, one at 4 ohms bridged one at 2 ohms bridged, one ppi 600.2 for tweets.

Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.

320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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Thanks Jeff, and thanks for the recommendation on Taramps in the other thread. 

Any advice on setting the gains safely?
Is 75-150w considered average for mids/highs? When I was younger I pretty much only amplified my sub, not much experience with amplified mids/highs so I have no idea what wattage is considered good enough.

Edited by BRZ

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125 to 150+ is good.


09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k

Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS......Mids/Highs two pioneer gm 8604 bridged, one at 4 ohms bridged one at 2 ohms bridged, one ppi 600.2 for tweets.

Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.

320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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I don't understand why nobody's raising a flag here...

I don't think any particular amount of speaker power is "good" w/o considering the limits of the speaker, and expectations of the listener.

It seems to me your objective is to power the speakers to their absolute limit, if not beyond.

As I understand it you're planning to run a speaker per channel.  I was not a math major, but I'm wondering if 140w on a 15w 3" mid-range might be a bit much.  And your 60w 7" won't exactly be starving for power either.

I think your biggest obstacle may be keeping the amp dialed back enough and resisting the urge to turn the volume knob very far clockwise.

And another measly 3k for the sub??  Better get that HO alt in the mail.

Whatever it is your trying to improve or solve -- I seriously doubt lack of power is the issue.

Edited by n2audio

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  • HU: Stock - Scosche SLC-4
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1 hour ago, n2audio said:

I don't understand why nobody's raising a flag here...

I don't think any particular amount of speaker power is "good" w/o considering the limits of the speaker, and expectations of the listener.

It seems to me your objective is to power the speakers to their absolute limit, if not beyond.

As I understand it you're planning to run a speaker per channel.  I was not a math major, but I'm wondering if 140w on a 15w 3" mid-range might be a bit much.  And your 60w 7" won't exactly be starving for power either.

I think your biggest obstacle may be keeping the amp dialed back enough and resisting the urge to turn the volume knob very far clockwise.

And another measly 3k for the sub??  Better get that HO alt in the mail.

Whatever it is your trying to improve or solve -- I seriously doubt lack of power is the issue.

in the other thread he just says he needs smaller footprint, If he's getting more headroom it doesnt hurt and i dont think he's the "all knobs to the right" type. With modern head units and dsps now there's soo many means of attenuation so i dont really see an issue with headroom. He's also not going to be pulling 3k worth of amperage after box rise along with not maxing out the amp. Efficiency will be high, amps will be cold no where near even 3/4 capacity to get the output he needs. I really dont see your point at all unless you already assume the op is an ignorant noob that cranks stuff up blindly. From his posts and threads he's at least trying to learn and take things carefully so i'm sure hes gonna be just fine.

Edited by Jeffdachef

09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k

Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS......Mids/Highs two pioneer gm 8604 bridged, one at 4 ohms bridged one at 2 ohms bridged, one ppi 600.2 for tweets.

Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.

320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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..

Edited by Jeffdachef

09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k

Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS......Mids/Highs two pioneer gm 8604 bridged, one at 4 ohms bridged one at 2 ohms bridged, one ppi 600.2 for tweets.

Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.

320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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23 hours ago, BRZ said:

Decided to replace my amps for smaller/higher power options, just have a few questions. I will be running factory electrical.

1. Is 136w considered ample power for mids and highs? I can also get an alternate Taramps amp for nearly double the price that would do 4x192W RMS
2. Since these amps are both way over the speakers rated RMS, I will run them with the gains super low. Would setting gains with a multi-meter be ideal? Or inch up until I hear distortion and back down? Any pointers is appreciated.
3. Will I be ok from an electrical/voltage perspective?
4. Do you guys think this is worthwhile from a sound quality/bass output perspective?

Sub:
Current: 2014 Soundstream Rubicon RUB1.1000D running at 1 ohm 1000w x 1
Replacement: Taramps HD 3000 to run at 1 ohm 3000w x 1
Sub = Sundown Audio SA12-D2 wired to 1 ohm in a sealed box

Mids/Highs:
Current: 2014 Soundstream Rubicon RUB4.500D running at 4 ohm 75w x 4 RMS
Replacement: Taramps DS 800x4 to run at 4 ohm 136w x 4
Mids = Dayton Audio RS180-4 7" 4 ohm, rated at 60w RMS
Highs = Dayton Audio RS75-4 3" 4 ohm, rated at 15w RMS

Had that same SS amp. It was.....ok. But since I hooked up my new 4 ch amp made a world of difference between loudness.

1282.JPG


97 4 dr. Tahoe

Interstate battery

Pioneer DEH-80PRS

Polk Audio MM6501 comps

Wolfram amps coming soon, 3000.1, 125.4

2 Sundown Audio X 15's Tuned @ 30Hz.

Knukonceptz/Royal Excelene wiring

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Jeff is correct, looking to really just get smaller amps so i can change my mounting situation. I figured i could get plenty of head room in the process since amps are so cheap these days.

I am looking for clean mids/highs, it would be nice if i could get more output from them, if not I'm considering replacing the speakers.

The sub i will likely set with a multi meter and see how it sounds and tweak as needed.

I am definitely not looking to max out my gains, i listen to many different genres of music, looking for clean output 

What i don't understand is what is the rms rating for on a speaker if you can technically connect any wattage of amp to it.

Edited by BRZ

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1 hour ago, Jeffdachef said:

in the other thread he just says he needs smaller footprint, If he's getting more headroom it doesnt hurt and i dont think he's the "all knobs to the right" type. With modern head units and dsps now there's soo many means of attenuation so i dont really see an issue with headroom. He's also not going to be pulling 3k worth of amperage after box rise along with not maxing out the amp. Efficiency will be high, amps will be cold no where near even 3/4 capacity to get the output he needs. I really dont see your point at all unless you already assume the op is an ignorant noob that cranks stuff up blindly. From his posts and threads he's at least trying to learn and take things carefully so i'm sure hes gonna be just fine.

Seems to be babbling at the mouth. You outta see what he said in the other thread...about the guy wanting to run a sub and some speakers from a 4 ch amp.


97 4 dr. Tahoe

Interstate battery

Pioneer DEH-80PRS

Polk Audio MM6501 comps

Wolfram amps coming soon, 3000.1, 125.4

2 Sundown Audio X 15's Tuned @ 30Hz.

Knukonceptz/Royal Excelene wiring

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8 minutes ago, Boomin_tahoe said:

Seems to be babbling at the mouth. You outta see what he said in the other thread...about the guy wanting to run a sub and some speakers from a 4 ch amp.

Huh, what are you talking about chief

Edit: nevermind I get it, yeah idk what his deal is

Edited by BRZ

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10 minutes ago, BRZ said:

Jeff is correct, looking to really just get smaller amps so i can change my mounting situation. I figured i could get plenty of head room in the process since amps are so cheap these days.

I am looking for clean mids/highs, it would be nice if i could get more output from them, if not I'm considering replacing the speakers.

The sub i will likely set with a multi meter and see how it sounds and tweak as needed.

I am definitely not looking to max out my gains, i listen to many different genres of music, looking for clean output 

What i don't understand is what is the rms rating for on a speaker if you can technically connect any wattage of amp to it.

You will be fine. Speakers are all rated at full range for rms number. Once you high pass them at an appropriate level it raises the rms substantially.


Traded with, bought from: Anthony O, Mitchell0715, kuda, Chevy Blazin', Babs, Captain Obvious, ciaonzo

 

'13 Camaro SS/RS

Kenwood DDX9903S - Arc PS-8

Arc Audio XDi 1200.6 - Audiofrog GB10, GB25, GB60

Helix SPXL1000 - (2) Audiofrog GB12D4 IB

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5 minutes ago, beak81champ said:

You will be fine. Speakers are all rated at full range for rms number. Once you high pass them at an appropriate level it raises the rms substantially.

Ok that helps, my tweeters are technically full range so that explains why the rating is so low, i think my mid speakers are too. I guess the same rule applies to my mid speakers except not as much of a buffer as if i was using them for highs. 

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1 hour ago, BRZ said:

Ok that helps, my tweeters are technically full range so that explains why the rating is so low, i think my mid speakers are too. I guess the same rule applies to my mid speakers except not as much of a buffer as if i was using them for highs. 

The RMS rating used for full range is low but once you put a crossover onto them, the power handling shoots up dramatically when you limit the range.  Thats why some rare few manufacturers actually list power handling at different crossover points.  Hell even my stock sienna speakers thrown on a ppi 900.4 took every bit of it once i threw a high pass on them.


09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k

Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS......Mids/Highs two pioneer gm 8604 bridged, one at 4 ohms bridged one at 2 ohms bridged, one ppi 600.2 for tweets.

Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.

320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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Will I be ok with 4 gauge power wire? I am currently feeding a power block with 4 gauge, then going from that to my SS amps with 10 gauge.

Or should I run 0 from battery to block, then 0 or 4 to amps?

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I use 4 gauge back to my distribution blocks and then 4 gauge back to the amps. 10 gauge power/ground wire is useless so if anything swap it out to 4 gauge, and yes going to 1/0 is always better if you can afford to do it and as long as it is OFC of course. If you do that then do as you said 0 gauge back to the blocks then 4 gauge to the amps. But regardless get rid of the 10 gauge

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Give your amp whatever the recommended gauge power wire it will take....and not anything smaller. My 4 ch amp I had took 4 gauge. Of course the bigger amp took 1/0 gauge. Typical for big mono sub amps for that type of gauge of wire.


97 4 dr. Tahoe

Interstate battery

Pioneer DEH-80PRS

Polk Audio MM6501 comps

Wolfram amps coming soon, 3000.1, 125.4

2 Sundown Audio X 15's Tuned @ 30Hz.

Knukonceptz/Royal Excelene wiring

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Thanks guys, I'll switch the wire from dist block to amps to 4 awg

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On 5/9/2019 at 6:45 PM, Boomin_tahoe said:

Had that same SS amp. It was.....ok. But since I hooked up my new 4 ch amp made a world of difference between loudness.

1282.JPG

Out of curiosity, did you ever have the Rubicons dyno'd or have any issues with them? I am pretty content with the output and they have not given me any problems. They do get a little hot after an hour or so. 

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7 hours ago, BRZ said:

Out of curiosity, did you ever have the Rubicons dyno'd or have any issues with them? I am pretty content with the output and they have not given me any problems. They do get a little hot after an hour or so. 

Nope. One of the ch on my 4 ch amp quit working. Have no idea why or how it happened. BigDWiz tested the 2500.1 Rubicon not long ago, black version but still same amp. Fell short of the 2.5k claim SS said it would do. You can find it on YouTube.


97 4 dr. Tahoe

Interstate battery

Pioneer DEH-80PRS

Polk Audio MM6501 comps

Wolfram amps coming soon, 3000.1, 125.4

2 Sundown Audio X 15's Tuned @ 30Hz.

Knukonceptz/Royal Excelene wiring

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