Looking for sub recommendations

gamehawk55
10+ year member

CarAudio.com Elite
Recently changed vehicles and got a 2015 Malibu LTZ with the premium 9-speaker sound system. Sounds fairly good on it's own but wanting to add some more bass to it. I currently have 2 10" Focal 10L6411 woofers sealed that I was running in my previous system that I could re-purpose for a while. But while they sound amazing, I would like to upgrade to something that will still have good sound quality, but provide much more oomph. I have a Hertz HDP4 amplifier available as well that can output 2chx500W @4ohms as well. 

So I'm looking for recommendations on 12" subs that will be loud, full, hit hard and have good sound quality in a (smallish) sealed box on 500W each. 

A couple options I have been looking at are:
Sundown E12
DC Audio Level 1 M4 12"

So any recommendations or input on either of the subs I mentioned would be greatly appreciated, thanks  :)

 

 
There is a search function on this site and Google still works I believe, ported vs sealed has to be the subject of hundreds of threads, or even a simple recommendation has turned into exactly that subject. There have been some hard-headed folks lately and they've been less than willing to learn as well... just getting tedious... that's all. 

There has been a rash of these type of questions lately on this site, hopefully this time the subject does not degenerate into a roasting like it has pretty much every-time.

 
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There is a search function on this site and Google still works I believe, ported vs sealed has to be the subject of hundreds of threads, or even a simple recommendation has turned into exactly that subject. There have been some hard-headed folks lately and they've been less than willing to learn as well... just getting tedious... that's all. 

There has been a rash of these type of questions lately on this site, hopefully this time the subject does not degenerate into a roasting like it has pretty much every-time.
I asked his opinion is all. I dont care to learn how to build a ported box, i personally think they dont sound good at all. But i have heard a LOT of sealed boxes that are insanely loud.

 
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The sealed vs ported subject seems to be constantly brought up by folks who have heard generalizations, have preconceptions, are scared to attempt designing/building one and have zero experience hearing a properly designed enclosure.

It's easy to just make statements but to actually expand one's knowledge it takes some willingness to learn, facts are facts.... sometimes those facts might be unpleasant but they're still facts.

I'd suggest you demo someones well setup system that is actually loud... it is not the 90's anymore

I've heard sealed pretty loud as well, cone is king and they're inefficient and huge wastes of space and power imo.... as long as the driver is one that will work in ported I'd do it.

My .02

I'm out  

Maybe subjective can be a bad thing if actual facts are not considered... Idk

dpAJZOE.jpg


 
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I asked his opinion is all. I dont care to learn how to build a ported box, i personally think they dont sound good at all. But i have heard a LOT of sealed boxes that are insanely loud.
its because people in the past dont have actual ported box building knowledge based on cabin gain, ts parameters modeled on an enclosure software and RTA testing which resulted in sh*t bandwidth, peaky response and horrible group delay (accuracy)   Again the setups of the 90s arent as loud as you think they are when compared to today's standards. Back then they used audio control meters which are literally at least 5 dbs less than now on a term lab meter and back then 150s was considered big dawgs.   Now with stricter Term Lab Magnums, you really have to be "LOUD" LOUD, a 150 nowadays will absolute destroy 150s in the 90s at a lower bass frequency as well, people are doing 150s in the 15-25hz zone. The standard nowadays is 160 db for the loud people club and no sealed setup can ever hope to join unless its a 4th order.   Not to mention i heard you mention scores with the window down, thats technically outlaw and our outlaw numbers are generally 5 db louder as well. Usually we measure strict with windows up meter on the dash in order for it to count as a real score so most 90s spl vehicles will fall flat on their face.

On the SQ side of things, you can do in car frequency response tests for transfer function and cabin gain then tune your enclosure low enough to balance out the cabin gain and get maximum usuable bandwidth which is a lot more than sealed which is completely left at the mercy of cabin gain which is not really SQ at all in most cases because your 50hz is 5-15 db stronger than your 28hz  mean while with a properly designed ported, 6th order or 1/4 wave transmission line, you can achieve a 1-2 db variance between 20hz to 50hz out the box and with some RTA and DSP tuning with parametric EQs (which the 90s rarely had) you can get less than 1 db variance.  With time alignment and beefier midbasses with lots of mids and highs power for cheap, you can get a perfect blend between midbass and subs for actual SQ portion. With subwoofer modeling software, you can also predict group delay (how fast, accurate and tight the sub will perform). 

Our standards for sound quality is also far beyond what the 90s comprehension of sound can think of. We have both the proper installation methods of  the 90s plus extreme amounts of power and headroom, electricals and the biggest game changer, digital signal processors (DSPs) usually with 8 to 10 channels of rca outputs for 3 way active front stages with mids midbass and midrange all fully bandpass crossover capable at any frequency 20hz to 20khz from -6 db slope to -24 db slopes with bessel, link witz riley or butterworth types of crossovers. Time alignment for perfect sound stage and individual left and right 31 band parametric EQ. Thats why they have a no dsp class for people in the 90s to compete because they have zero chance against DSPs. 

People in the 90s lacked the tools, knowledge and technology to achieve the results we are capable of today. I'd recommend you checking out a MECA SQ/SPL or DB drag organizations and see what the game is like nowadays.  Sorry for the chunk of text but you look like you needed some severe catching up with the times sir. Hope this helps clear some stuff up.

 
<snip>
No. I didnt ask for "schooling" on what "loud is these days". I asked him to quantify his assertion, thats all. Does tech and knowledge advance? Sure, but i didnt ask for that comparison. I only mentioned the "outlaw" bit once cause they didnt have as many people show up as they thought (due to weather IIRC) so we got to dick around with the equipment for a couple hours and try different things. Being "subjective" is all that possible with one set of ears, doesnt make someone else wrong or right if they dont agree with your ears. Loud is loud is loud despite any measurement device or time span. Its also about taste, mine probably wont agree with yours and vice versa. Besides, yea im "new" here, but dont dare lump me in with anyone who has caused trouble on here in the past, one its not fair and two, its not necessary to bother yourself over.

 
Bottom line, saying a blanket statement like he did is like saying Chevy is more powerful than Ford.
lol its not a blanketed statement and its more like saying a tesla model S is faster than a toyota prius. Loud is quantifiable is measured not subjective. Sit in a 160 db car and sit in a 150 db car.   or better yet sit in a 150 db car on an audio control meter and then sit in a 150 db car in a term lab meter.  You'll sh*t your pants with a real 150 DB if all you heard were "loud" sealed boxes.  Sound quality is getting more and more objective than subjective with proper measurement devices which translates to actual real world performance and is agreed by the vast majority who know what they are doing.  But hey man, keep living under a rock if that makes you happy. 

 
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