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gen1ms3

New sub hates old enclosure, want to build my first box SWS-12d4

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To follow up, I ended up with a pioneer mvh-s512bs (I returned the JVC couldn't even stand how cheap the knob/buttons felt let alone lack of true 4v outs) hooked up with new RCAs & quality 12ga speaker wire... Night & day difference already can't believe I lived years of my life on stock HU with LOC. I have the gain turned all the way down & I'm hesitant to even turn the sub level up to max for how powerful it is now; those 4v outputs w/ quality rcas really makes a difference. Thank you everyone for your input & advice so far I would have been lost without yalls help.

Going to spend a few days playing with EQ & see where that gets me before proceeding to build a new enclosure.

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3 hours ago, gen1ms3 said:

To follow up, I ended up with a pioneer mvh-s512bs (I returned the JVC couldn't even stand how cheap the knob/buttons felt let alone lack of true 4v outs) hooked up with new RCAs & quality 12ga speaker wire... Night & day difference already can't believe I lived years of my life on stock HU with LOC. I have the gain turned all the way down & I'm hesitant to even turn the sub level up to max for how powerful it is now; those 4v outputs w/ quality rcas really makes a difference. Thank you everyone for your input & advice so far I would have been lost without yalls help.

Going to spend a few days playing with EQ & see where that gets me before proceeding to build a new enclosure.

Yeah most people dont understand the magic of what quality head units can do. I'm glad your setup improved. now imagine your old sub with this hahaha.

the biggest gain was that you have a full signal now aka 0hz to 20khz. Vs before with the stock head unit, there most likely was a built in high pass filter at 50hz that literally cut off all your bass and all you were trying to do was boost a nonexistent signal with an LOC. 

Edited by Jeffdachef

09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k

Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS......Mids/Highs two pioneer gm 8604 bridged, one at 4 ohms bridged one at 2 ohms bridged, one ppi 600.2 for tweets.

Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.

320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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I have the CD version of that deck on the way. My RF amp goes to 12v so gains won't be all that low but will be lower than my current Kenwood KDC-X597. 

Other than using gain setting discs I don't use CD's. I do 320 on my iPod but moving forward it will be FLAC. 

Have you had a chance to tinker with your deck more? 

 


Kenwood KDC-X597 head unit, Alpine R-S65C.2 comps, RF P300.2 amp, Pioneer TS-W3003D4 sub i(1.5cf @ 40hz), JBL GTR-1001 amp, Knukonceptz fuse blocks/wiring, Stinger 4k series rca's. 

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33 minutes ago, 2RZ-FE said:

I have the CD version of that deck on the way. My RF amp goes to 12v so gains won't be all that low but will be lower than my current Kenwood KDC-X597. 

Other than using gain setting discs I don't use CD's. I do 320 on my iPod but moving forward it will be FLAC. 

Have you had a chance to tinker with your deck more? 

 

dont use CD disks, completely inaccurate. Use music, more specifically your hardest hitting song.  If you want to get analytical, use spectrum analyzer on audacity and see the DB levels and generate the test tone that matches the song and use that as a test tone to set gains. Also set gains with subs connected not disconnected its completely different when the amp sees a load vs no load. Basically saying the old digital multi-meter gain setting method using a 0 db test tone is beyond flawed for multitude of reasons.


09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k

Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS......Mids/Highs two pioneer gm 8604 bridged, one at 4 ohms bridged one at 2 ohms bridged, one ppi 600.2 for tweets.

Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.

320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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Metal doesn't hit particularly hard...any song suggestions?


Kenwood KDC-X597 head unit, Alpine R-S65C.2 comps, RF P300.2 amp, Pioneer TS-W3003D4 sub i(1.5cf @ 40hz), JBL GTR-1001 amp, Knukonceptz fuse blocks/wiring, Stinger 4k series rca's. 

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6 hours ago, 2RZ-FE said:

Metal doesn't hit particularly hard...any song suggestions?

Metal has much weaker bass lines and hits than normal music, if you tuned your system to rap, EDM or pop music, you wont have any bass in metal because metal is usually 5 dbs lower than normal music. You'll want two different sub level settings where at a low sub level like -3 or -6, you can safely play bass intensive music like rebass and hip hop. While another sub level setting like at max like 0 or +6 would be for metal, rock, classic rock etc..  in short, you'll need to up the gain and lower sub level for bass heavy and then raise sub level for weak songs.

If that's still not enough, you'll want to
36 to 40hz box tuning or keep port the same but reduce box size. 

If thats still not enough, 1/4 wave transmission line boxes, or get subwoofers with shorting rings. however I doubt you'll get to this stage of dissapointment.

Throw away all the test tone gain setting methods and jump straight to music, put sub level at almost max, play some metal, every minute, stop, check the coil temperatures, amp temperatures and keep your nose sharp. You smell anything or if anything is hot to the touch, lower the gain. If you dont smell anything and its ice cold, do a longer test run and if its ice cold after 5 mins of play, you got a lot more room left to raise the gain, repeat the process again.  Now when you switch to hip hop, all you need to do is adjust the sub level, keep it low and raise it up and do heat tests. Now you'll know what sub level your bass heavy songs should be at and what sub level your metal music should be at.

In summer, you'll want to lower the sub level a bit because due to the heat, your subs wont dissapate heat as well as a colder season so you'll heat up the coils a lot faster with minimal methods of cooling. You wont be able to play as loud and long as you did in the winter as you would in the summer for as long.

Edited by Jeffdachef

09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k

Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS......Mids/Highs two pioneer gm 8604 bridged, one at 4 ohms bridged one at 2 ohms bridged, one ppi 600.2 for tweets.

Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.

320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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Given the limited space you have, why not go IB?  I have 2 of the Alpine bass lines and I have mine in a baffle facing towards the rear windshield.  it has a better low end extension and given its QTS of 0.57, Its not doing too bad being fed 444rms per woofer.

IMG20180522173812.jpg

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On 3/3/2019 at 8:01 PM, 2RZ-FE said:

I have the CD version of that deck on the way. My RF amp goes to 12v so gains won't be all that low but will be lower than my current Kenwood KDC-X597. 

Other than using gain setting discs I don't use CD's. I do 320 on my iPod but moving forward it will be FLAC. 

Have you had a chance to tinker with your deck more? 

 

Yea I've put a good few hours on it so far, very pleased! I've been playing a mix of spotify (320 premium) & 320/flac files off a usb. Also swapped out my jbl door speakers for some pioneer a-series 4-ways as the 2.3 ohm impedence of the jbls is just dumb off a factory deck. Major upgrade considering I still don't have components & just off HU power!

Also sealed up my current box to be about 1ft^3 after sub displacement. THat led to me turning up the gain to the first line (about 1/3 way to nominal), but I'm just experimenting before I pitch this old pre-fab that's falling apart. Definitely sounds clean & fast sealed for drum & bass, electro, & old school dubstep (Caspa's I remember remix is a test song for me), but the low end is a little on the weak side.

Now I'm torn as I want to keep it well rounded for any style music and it's been mentioned that this SWS-12d4 can get sloppy in a large enclosure, but that seems to be necessary if I want to get decent low end output, which also takes a majority of my cargo space as well.

Been brainstorming how I could maybe build a slimmish box about 8-10" depth that would lay flat, firing up, with port to the side or rear. This would allow me to put a guard over the sub and use it as a second floor to toss things on at least. Not sure how well odd dimensions like 20x25x10 would be though, but that'd give me around 2.1ft^3 before port/sub/brace displacement to work with.

I'm very pleased with the results sealed, though I feel like I would be happier if I can get a properly designed ported box to sound just as clean across the board without being too slow or sloppy.

Edited by gen1ms3

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On 3/7/2019 at 11:15 AM, DRBOOM said:

Given the limited space you have, why not go IB?  I have 2 of the Alpine bass lines and I have mine in a baffle facing towards the rear windshield.  it has a better low end extension and given its QTS of 0.57, Its not doing too bad being fed 444rms per woofer.

IMG20180522173812.jpg

I haven't considered this. Gonna do some reading on it & see if it might work for my situation as I've never looked at an infinite baffle or heard one. THank you for the idea!

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Got the Pioneer in but have a few issues...

I wanted to use my RF gain disc so I can see what volume the deck clips at but this disc gives me a format read and then goes to error 23. I put in a few regular music CD's and they play fine.

I downloaded the test tones from the RF site and put them on my iPod and the deck doesn't like the tracks on there so the display says USB STOP and won't read the iPod at all. I removed the tracks and it plays fine. Tried mp3 and m4a.

How do I select an artist, song, etc? My other deck had a title button so not familiar with this one. Manual says navigate button but didn't see anything unless i'm doing something wrong. 


Kenwood KDC-X597 head unit, Alpine R-S65C.2 comps, RF P300.2 amp, Pioneer TS-W3003D4 sub i(1.5cf @ 40hz), JBL GTR-1001 amp, Knukonceptz fuse blocks/wiring, Stinger 4k series rca's. 

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1 hour ago, 2RZ-FE said:

How do I select an artist, song, etc? My other deck had a title button so not familiar with this one. Manual says navigate button but didn't see anything unless i'm doing something wrong. 

That's actually a good question. I haven't really used the app much yet, have just been using the up/down arrows (1 & 2) to move folders then skip individual songs. I store my music in the usb with a folder for each artist so that's worked for me, though it would be nice to scroll through artists before selecting one

***EDIT*** - Hold down the navigate button ( ▲ next to MC wheel) for a few seconds and it'll enter search mode for artists & to navigate folders. Just figured this out

Edited by gen1ms3

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I’m using a 160 GB iPod classic. The display comes up as iPhone USB when connected, shouldn’t it say iPod? I held down the navigation button and it jsays Connect App and nothing happens.


Kenwood KDC-X597 head unit, Alpine R-S65C.2 comps, RF P300.2 amp, Pioneer TS-W3003D4 sub i(1.5cf @ 40hz), JBL GTR-1001 amp, Knukonceptz fuse blocks/wiring, Stinger 4k series rca's. 

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2 hours ago, 2RZ-FE said:

I’m using a 160 GB iPod classic. The display comes up as iPhone USB when connected, shouldn’t it say iPod? I held down the navigation button and it jsays Connect App and nothing happens.

Not sure there... do you have the app set to usb or bluetooth? Maybe it's trying to access the app via USB thinking it's an iphone. If so then try setting app control to bluetooth. Just an idea though I found it works smoother without connecting the app at all & still controls my phone over bluetooth just fine. I've got an old ipod nano I'll try if I can find a cord for it

Update - It didn't want to recognize my ipod nano on the usb at all, but it's like 10 years old so understandable. ipods are basically just usb sticks with a display anyways 🤷‍♂️

Edited by gen1ms3

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The pioneer smart app? Not using it. Have the MTB turned off that’s for Android. The other thing wired or Bluetooth I have it set to wired. Either way gives the same sources. I have a 64gb sandisc thumb drive I will see if that does anything. Will check this stuff tonight 


Kenwood KDC-X597 head unit, Alpine R-S65C.2 comps, RF P300.2 amp, Pioneer TS-W3003D4 sub i(1.5cf @ 40hz), JBL GTR-1001 amp, Knukonceptz fuse blocks/wiring, Stinger 4k series rca's. 

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16 minutes ago, 2RZ-FE said:

The pioneer smart app? Not using it. Have the MTB turned off that’s for Android. The other thing wired or Bluetooth I have it set to wired. Either way gives the same sources. I have a 64gb sandisc thumb drive I will see if that does anything. Will check this stuff tonight 

Ah I have a blackberry so I'm on android, haven't had issues with it. Hope you can get it sorted out might just be a funky setting somewhere. When you've got the thumb drive in, holding down the nav button will definitely put you into file / song selection. Just make sure each artist has their own file & it should display on the screen

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I’ll try that and also transfer music to my iPhone and see what happens. The JVC 360BTS I had had no problems with playing my iPod It also had no problem playing that RF test tone disc that I mentioned. The Pioneer gives me an error 23 which according to the manual means unsupported disc. This Pioneer is being funky. 

Edited by 2RZ-FE

Kenwood KDC-X597 head unit, Alpine R-S65C.2 comps, RF P300.2 amp, Pioneer TS-W3003D4 sub i(1.5cf @ 40hz), JBL GTR-1001 amp, Knukonceptz fuse blocks/wiring, Stinger 4k series rca's. 

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Got the iPhone to work. Pioneer smart app sucks though. Using the app puts the SLA at +4 which Is the highest setting and the volume is low compared to the other sources so I will just use Bluetooth without the app. The browsing through the navigation button works using my iPhone but doesn’t seem to work with my iPod classic maybe you need an iPod touch or something. 

Edited by 2RZ-FE

Kenwood KDC-X597 head unit, Alpine R-S65C.2 comps, RF P300.2 amp, Pioneer TS-W3003D4 sub i(1.5cf @ 40hz), JBL GTR-1001 amp, Knukonceptz fuse blocks/wiring, Stinger 4k series rca's. 

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